JacobA Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Just thought I would see if anyone may know of a source for Sauer Danfoss 1091140 fan controller. I read here in several different threads that you could get one from Whitehouse hydraulics in the UK. I contacted them and they said that it could not be sold as it is a OEM only product and not for resale. I do understand that I can convert to a wax valve but just not my first choice. 2006 Camelot PDQ ISL400 Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmw188 Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Maybe try Source Engineering Inc. in Oregon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacobA Posted July 3, 2023 Author Share Posted July 3, 2023 Thanks Source has a wax valve conversion instead of controller but my preference is the controller. REV parts lists one with a different part # for just over $3900. Not willing to pay that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ray Davis Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, JacobA said: Whitehouse hydraulics in the UK. I contacted them and they said that it could not be sold as it is a OEM only product and not for resale I wonder when that came about? I've read several times of people ordering an FDCA from Whitehouse. Might be REV protecting their ridiculous $3900 price. Perhaps an RV dealer can order from Whitehouse. Is REV using FDCA control now? I thought they used a right-angle gear drive now. Bill G, RIP replaced his FDCA then dug the potting compound out of the old one & found moisture inside. He dried it out and it worked. Bill believed the problem was that Monaco mounted the FDCA with the wires pointing up allowing water to creep in. If you have some time on your hands, who knows you might get lucky too. Edited July 3, 2023 by Ray Davis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Weir Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 I bought the 1091140 controller from Berendsen Fluid Power. https://www.bfpna.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary 05 AMB DST Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 Is this about a side mount radiator? Gary 05 AMB DST Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happycarz Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 My controller uses the PWM wire directly from the ECM to control the pintle valve regulating fluid flow. Other coaches have the PWM signal, along with 12v and ground, going to an electronic box. Apparently the box is the controlling the PWM to the pintle valve. There must be a reason, for it as it was used so many coaches, sans mine. The difference with mine is that all the hydraulic lines run through a hydraulic manifold, not just the bypass circuit. Snowflakes once again. Why would Monaco put use the electronic box to act as a relay, if you will. Is it to isolate the ECM, that is, to protect it? Looking at the INSITE software fan controller section, the fan signal from the ECM can be programmed on/off for a fan clutch, programmed high/low/off for a two speed fan clutch, or as a PWM signal. If my pintle/solenoid is connected to the ECM directly, why couldn’t the PWM wire be connected to the pintle/solenoid directly. Anyone want to try? That is a rhetorical question, as no one wants to gamble with ruining their ECM. As this fan controller failure issue often comes up, I’m just trying to look at the resolution from a different perspective. Where would one find the answer? Cummins, it’s their ECM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacobA Posted July 3, 2023 Author Share Posted July 3, 2023 Gary, yes it’s a side mount radiator. James, I called Berendson this morning but probably closes for the 4th. I will give the a call Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vito.a Posted July 3, 2023 Share Posted July 3, 2023 This thread has 21 pages of good information on the hydraulic fan controller. Many of us have abandoned the electronic controller because they are difficult to find and over $1k. And they still fail. I converted ours to a mechanical wax valve and it is working better than ever. Fan stuck wide open - iRV2 Forums Best of luck! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Weir Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 I bought the 1091140 controller from Berendsen Fluid Power. https://www.bfpna.com/ Jay, I just checked my notes and the part number 1091140 was the original controller and was replaced by part # 11163020. I purchased a 11163020 in January 2019 for $1300 CDN. It is a direct replacement for 1091140 that took about 15 minutes to change out and has been working flawlessly ever since. The one difference I found is there is an additional wiring harness on the new controller that I did not use. I believe the additional harness is for diagnostics but I didn't investigate further and it remains tie wrapped to the lot to keep it tucked up and out of the way. James - 2007 Dynasty ISL400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacobA Posted July 4, 2023 Author Share Posted July 4, 2023 James thanks for all the info. Looks like exactly what I need. I will check with them when they open after the 4th! James, when you ordered it did you get the entire assembly or just the head or electronic part. Thanks Sorry if I sent this twice James did that part come as a complete unit or just the electric head / top portion. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Weir Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 11163020 is the complete assembly. I did find separate part numbers for the electrical and mechanical portions of the complete unit but neither were available at the time. I think the electrical component was out of stock at the time and the valve portion was unavailable to me for some reason or other. The part # I have are (11163018 - Electrical) - (11163030 - Valve) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacobA Posted July 4, 2023 Author Share Posted July 4, 2023 Thanks again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Mo Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 I replaced my controller March 2022, Danfoss 1163020 Radwell International NJ, 800 332 4336 $2300.00 You can send them your Fan Drive Control and have them rebuild it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacobA Posted July 4, 2023 Author Share Posted July 4, 2023 Johnny I came across there site and did see the rebuild service, great info. Going to shop around and then maybe get the old one torn down for a back up. Still considering the wax valve if the controller keep going up from what others have paid. $1000 or so for R&R but $2000 plus might be time to move on. Thanks for the info! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill R Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 On 7/3/2023 at 12:56 PM, Happycarz said: If my pintle/solenoid is connected to the ECM directly, why couldn’t the PWM wire be connected to the pintle/solenoid directly. Anyone want to try? To answer your question @Happycarz, I have done this. The SD controller for my coach was the five wire set up. Three wires going to the SD controller (ECM, 12V, Neutral), and two wires going from the SD Controller to the pintle valve (SD output, neutral). When the fan started to run WAO all the time and I determined the SD controller was bad, I began to research options and went with an option I found on IRV2, see attached white paper. For the five wire set up, there needs to be a PWM motor controller that will step down the voltage to the pintle valve such that you are able to set the RPM's at cold start-up. If not, the fan will barely spin as the cold start up voltages from the ECM are too high to spin the fan much. I have the voltage coming out of the motor controller going to the pintle valve set to spin the fan around 600 RPM for cold start up idle. The white paper uses the 12V hot wire as the control signal to the motor controller, but I did enough research and testing to convince myself, and to your point, that I could use the ECM voltage instead of the constant 12V. I have been running my coach this way for nearly 2 years, thousands of miles, through Colorado, over Monarch Pass, other difficult terrain, and I cannot see any distinguishable performance in in engine cooling versus the OEM setup. An interesting event happened about a month ago when the fan started to ramp up to WAO and then back to normal RPM. When I tested the ECM voltage to the pintle it was erratic at times. A few days later I noticed that my Air Intake Temperature sensor was erratic and would stay at high temps of 185F plus. I knew this to be a false indication as it would show 185F on a cold startup. The light went off for me that maybe this was causing the erratic ECM input to the pintle valve. I installed a new Air Intake Sensor and wouldn't you know, everything is back as it was. The hidden blessing for me is I always wondered how much the ECM really affected the pintle valve, and if it included the Air Intake Temp sensor as an determinate factor. Well I have my answer. Not only does the ECM have an immediate affect on the fan speed, it also takes into account the Air Intake Temp sensor along with the Coolant Temp. I investigated this route in the first place because the cost to replace the SD module was extremely high in comparison to this fix. I know it is not OEM, but it works as one would expect. The fix is also less than $100. $15 for the motor controller and $80 for the 205F thermal switch. Hope this answers your question. Hydraulic Fan Drive Controller Repair Option.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happycarz Posted July 4, 2023 Share Posted July 4, 2023 Ah ha. Now your setup is like my factory setup. Seems easier than reinventing the wheel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malewis11 Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 Hi All, I certainly learned a lot from this thread and I’m hopping it will help me correct my fan issue. @Bill R I like that solution. Could you enlighten me on the installation and location of the thermal valve on our Coach? Also, with two years of testing under your belt is there a specific DC motor controller you would recommend? I think I saw somewhere else you said around 9 volts gave you the desired 600 RPM at cold startup, correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill R Posted April 2 Share Posted April 2 39 minutes ago, Malewis11 said: Hi All, I certainly learned a lot from this thread and I’m hopping it will help me correct my fan issue. @Bill R I like that solution. Could you enlighten me on the installation and location of the thermal valve on our Coach? Also, with two years of testing under your belt is there a specific DC motor controller you would recommend? I think I saw somewhere else you said around 9 volts gave you the desired 600 RPM at cold startup, correct? Mark - my coach came with a water temp sensor that was not being used because it was faulty. It is a redundant sensor so I just decided to use that port for the thermal switch. I have attached a pic that shows the old temp sensor located on top just above the exhaust manifold. Here is a link of the motor controller I have been using. I don't exactly recall the voltage to set for cold startup but I do think it is around 8.5V to 9V coming out of the MC to the pintle valve controller. You can buy a laser tachometer and measure your fan speed to be more precise. The initial voltage is really only important on cold starts to make sure you have some cooling to use dash A/C. Once the engine starts to warm up the ECM will start to take over and adjust the speed of the fan through the MC. I ran the wires in a wire loom to the rear run bay where I mounted the MC. I have been running this setup for 2 years now and have been very pleased with the operation. Hope this helps. https://www.amazon.com/RioRand-7-80V-Motor-Controller-Switch/dp/B071NQ5G71/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1L2746B6QQUBA&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.j-9fMQg81vrq0DfsMJ5hlpgzSfYN6qoIz7uwHuBkQSwFBTGwVF94FIm2ne7X6ZlPXune95rL0scAdkpxSSx6DT1Vxkxl3EHzGNotxUGGuTXGq4fdRavfEJgLD_zFrYDvEneAfh58kiaY4Utb88gXEZurdMOtuCbk3kmUemO5zicY-nQg_sZ6pfM5A2mKkR6wbv9dZnicpG_ueL29Zefu-eASAZHdojcjj9Fjn7Xmfc3oKUmHBiTNo3QKmyTFrCUoIhUc3xPrG9_qn6uIxIFCbpLOiPESxR6_YKFQjUD3MXY.0ZFtGYR1phXlcOMiJJU8sl896vhY8M3FhNhAvgmaU2A&dib_tag=se&keywords=riorand+7-70v+pwm+dc+motor+speed+controller+switch+30a&qid=1712026087&s=hi&sprefix=Riorand+7-7%2Ctools%2C185&sr=1-3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertmrankin6612 Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Bill R. wrote "The white paper uses the 12V hot wire as the control signal to the motor controller, but I did enough research and testing to convince myself, and to your point, that I could use the ECM voltage instead of the constant 12V. I have been running my coach this way for nearly 2 years, thousands of miles, through Colorado, over Monarch Pass, other difficult terrain, and I cannot see any distinguishable performance in in engine cooling versus the OEM setup." This question is directed to Bill R., and anyone else that would like to respond. I HOPE I am not jinxing myself with this post as the ISL in my 05 Dynasty has been happy for 87,000 miles, BUT, since the SD FDC is a known problem, I thought I'd ask the question. Is the thermal switch even necessary? Since it isn't used in my OEM installation, doesn't the ecm signal tell the fan when to go wide open anyway? Is the thermal switch redundant? It isn't in @happycarz OEM either. If I had access to the proper plug, for $20 I'd be inclined to unplug the SD controller and try the ecm to PCM motor speed controller. I don't want to unnecessarily to splice into my SD wiring, hence the need for the plug. IF it worked properly, it would be a CHEAP, EASY fix that can even be done on the road. Cheers Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malewis11 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) Hi Bob, I have attached information for the connector on my 2006 Windsor. As I was working to switch the fan control to the dc motor controller it was obvious that the connector was in pretty bad shape. The bigger issue was the Hirschmann plug on the solenoid. It was so corroded inside that there was no power getting to the valve. I picked up a new one for a few bucks and replaced it. I then verified that I had 12 volt power on both the 12v supply to the SD and from the ECM to the SD. I also now have 12v getting to the solenoid so my SD may be working properly now. Haven’t run the engine to confirm but will this weekend. I plan to make a harness so I can easily switch to the motor controller if I need to while hoping that the valve is good. I haven’t seen many reports of the valves failing, it’s usually the electronics. I haven’t delved into the thermal switch yet but putting a normally closed switch in would act as a fail safe breaking the circuit and sending 0v to MC at high temp. This would put the fan on high. Mark Edited April 9 by Malewis11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob M cKeown Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 I have 2 of them. I installed the Wax Valve and do not need them. Give me a call at 863 602 4685 if you are interested in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertmrankin6612 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Hi Mark, Thanks for the plugs info....I'm going to pursue this a bit and will report back when, and if, I learn anything. I get that the thermo switch would break the circuit and sent the fan to wide open, I'm kinda just trying to suss out how the ECM signal wouldn't fail to anything other than open. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill R Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 On 4/8/2024 at 11:23 AM, robertmrankin6612 said: This question is directed to Bill R., and anyone else that would like to respond. I HOPE I am not jinxing myself with this post as the ISL in my 05 Dynasty has been happy for 87,000 miles, BUT, since the SD FDC is a known problem, I thought I'd ask the question. Is the thermal switch even necessary? Bob - you have the correct understanding. The ECM will cause the fan to go wide open as the temperature increases. The responsiveness of the ECM however I am not sure of. The Thermal Switch to me is just an operational preference that when coolant gets to 205F the fan will go wide open and keep the temp from climbing any higher. Let us know what you end up doing. 22 hours ago, Malewis11 said: I picked up a new one for a few bucks and replaced it. I then verified that I had 12 volt power on both the 12v supply to the SD and from the ECM to the SD. I also now have 12v getting to the solenoid so my SD may be working properly now. Haven’t run the engine to confirm but will this weekend. I plan to make a harness so I can easily switch to the motor controller if I need to while hoping that the valve is good. I haven’t seen many reports of the valves failing, it’s usually the electronics. Mark - let us know if this fixed the problem. You may have 12V to the valve, but the question will be does that voltage drop as the engine warms up showing that the control board is working. I hope it does work. That is a good find. I was concerned that my issue but have been the connector as well, but I confirmed by bypassing the connector that it was not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertmrankin6612 Posted April 11 Share Posted April 11 Hi Guys, Well my pursuit has stalled for a bit until I can figure out how to get the plug out of the valve body. I have tried both pulling and twisting the round plug, but it doesn't seem to want to move. I don't want to lean TOO HARD on it as it is still currently working and I don't want to bust something. Does this plug have a history of being stuck as well as a history of being corroded like Mark's? I'm feeling a little stupid here, does the plug pull out, or does it twist? Would you ever put a tool on it? Learning bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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