Roadmaster 8 airbag suspension H frame movement and resulting wandering

[Ivan K]

The hard truth...

[JDCrow]

Thanks again Van. Still trying to get someone to fab up the front of my H to mount the Watts to instead of the rear. Just picked up the rear watts and waiting for decent weather in install 

[dl_racing427]

1 hour ago, vanwill52 said:

Start by reducing your steering wheel lost motion to ZERO.  If you have a Sheppard steering box, replace it with TRW.  Don't believe the hogwash about "blueprinting" a Sheppard gear.  If you have a TRW steering gear, adjust it to zero play when the wheels are pointed DEAD AHEAD.

Install a Watts link in the front.  Check with Mike Hughes (monacowatts dot com) as to the availability of a kit for your model.  It will almost surely involve welding to your frame.  Although you can install X-bars and Watts links in the rear, the FRONT Watts link is the one that will make 90% of the difference.

FORGET ALIGNMENT!!!!!  After all, you have a solid front axle coach.  Toe-in is all you can easily change, and you can check that with a tape measure.  Forget adding additional caster 95% of the time.  That idea comes from guys who think their "Formula One racing expertise" applies to motor homes.  If you have NO or NEGATIVE caster is the only reason for changing it.

Forget shocks.  This is the Holy Grail of all the clueless.  Why does it NEVER work?  Because a shock absorber only works when its MOVING--extending in and out.  How much do you think ANY shock is expanding or contracting on a glassy-smooth highway...even though you are wandering all over your lane?  And yes, there are countless testimonies to the fact that adding "XYZ Miracle Shock" TOTALLY eliminated my wandering.  Check their testimonies a few months later.  If an intelligent man decides to spend a small fortune on oscillation dampers (incorrectly named "shock absorbers" in the days of the 1928 Model A Ford) he will DEFINITELY feel a huge improvement.  It's just human nature.  Who wants to admit they changed shocks for $2K and the improvement in wandering was non-existent or minimal.  Who wants to admit, "I was a fool for spending that much money on something that honestly did not work?  The improvement in wandering from replacing shocks is always between the ears of the fellow who just parted with a small fortune...to no effect.

Forget tires, inflation pressure, tire brand, uneven wear.  Forget ride height.  Forget air bag condition--If it is not leaking so fast your coach is listing to port/starboard, it doesn't matter.  Forget folks telling you that you are not "looking far enough ahead", as if the concept of controlling a 45K# vehicle differs fundamentally from controlling a 4K# one--if you can successfully keep an automobile tracking in your lane, you may not have the ultimate RV operator skills, but you have all the skill you need to know how to keep the 45,000 # beast in its lane.  You might not intuitively know the "recognized procedure" for handling a blowout.

For Pete's sake, FORGET ABOUT "STEERING STABILIZERS" in EVERY iteration by EVERY manufacturer.  You CANNOT fix a chassis/suspension problem with a "steering system" fix.

Thoroughly inspect the heavy vertical 3" square (?) vertical tubes in your rear suspension for CRACKS.  The cracks are very common, and are easily fixed.  Should you feel better having an experienced professional make the repair, Josam's in Orlando, FL is the undisputed KING of repairing this condition, and in a safe and workmanlike manner.  Barry is a true professional.

I always sum up my seminars with this ONE INDISPUTABLE TRUTH...if your coach is wandering, IT IS FOR ONE AND ONLY ONE REASSON!!  YOUR COACH IS GOING EXACTLY WHERE ITS WHEELS ARE POINTED.  Figure out why your wheels are not staying pointed straight ahead when your steering wheel IS, and you have solved your problem.

Simple and to the point.
Excellent advice from a man who definitely knows what he's talking about.

[ok-rver]

As the OP of this topic, it sometimes takes a while for projects to get started. We will be driving around 5,000 miles in June and July. With the help and patience of Mike Hughes at MonacoWatts, I finally got my parts ordered and delivered. I am install a watts linkage at the front of my front H-Frame, between the crossmember and my air tank. This gets it as far from the panhard rod (3X) as possible to help in stabilizing the H-frame. 

Pictures shows Mike's parts in a mock up situation with some of the steel I will be using to build a bracket. Today was a storage bay day. Tomorrow I get to use a friends fabrication equipment. The frame I am building will initially be bolted together to get it mocked up and then welded as a frame. The upper angle will bolt to the chassis frame cross member. expecting to add a couple of diagonals to keep the frame from moving for and aft. looking for 4" x 4" x 1/4" or 3/8" by 19" long angle to bolt to frame.  3x3x3/16 short section shown in the picture ( orange bar clamp holding it in place). Found 3" wide c-channel, 1.5" flange to be the vertical supports that bolt to the upper angle at the top (vice grips in picture) and the sides of the bell crank bracket Mike provided, (vice grips that you can not see). These parts were part of a kit that had the bell crank at the center maybe attached to a jack. The crank is much longer than needed to get the tie rods away from the center bracket, I think. It has to be installed at this angle to get the tie rods parallel to the H-frame.

Taking this picture, I'm setting on a creeper in the generator bay looking toward the rear. Without the pull out generator slide, this modification would be really difficult. MH wheels are on 3" of wood blocks and jack stands under the frame. Air bags are at road height. 

MH now has X-braces at the rear. Coach came with a TRW steering box and I have removed most of the play. Expect to re-address once the linkage is in place.

Hope to have it in and tested within a couple of weeks or so.

[ok-rver]

Update on the watts linkage installation. My bracket had enough welds to hold it together for normal driving. I installed my bracket, with the  bell crank and tie rod ends that MonacoWatts provided. My wife and I went for a test drive drive on Thursday. Driving into a 20 mph wind at 65 mph and getting passed by big rigs had much less effect on the steering of the motor home. B4 I would have to initially correct in one direction and then counter correct as the wind coming off the front of the rig changed. On the test drive, the more the streamline the cab passing me in the same direction, the more air seemed to get pushed to the side and there was still about 40% of the previous corrections needed. On older non-aero cabs, no correction was require. Running down the road, several times I removed my hands from the wheel and the MH tracked pretty straight. My TRW steering box has been adjusted to less than 1/4" of slop at the edge of the wheel when reversing direction. There is still some vagueness is the steering that I will investigate. Making a U-turn and running with a 20 mph wind, there was NO influence being passed by rigs. My thought was they are only moving thru the wind at 45 mph and have a lot less air to push sideways. I am very please with the end results. Mike Hughs has been very helpful in discussing parts he had available. I am not sure how many would be interested in an installation like this. I do plan on starting another topic with details of how I did this. In discussions with Mike about how it could be much easier if he produced one of his parts slightly different.

While under the MH sitting on a creeper in the space where the generator is normally stored, I noticed that there are two gussets attached on the front of the H-frame for the driver front shock. These gussets are about 6" from a square tube upright that is part of the generator roller cam rail. I had a 36" long 2x4 that I had been using to to support my new bracket. I wedged the end of the 2x into the shock gussets and pushed using the square tube as a fulcrum with about 20 lbs of force on the end of the 2x. That would result in about 100 lbs of force pushing the front of the H-frame towards the passenger side. With the watts linkage in place, I could see a very little amount of side ways movement when I pushed on the 2x. Friday I pulled the watts linkage off to finish welding and coat with paint. I moved the driver side clamping plate over to align with a tube on the gen support.  I could easily see 1/32" or more of movement with the same 100 lbs loading. 100 lbs at the front would be the same as 250 lbs or so of side loading at the axle because the axle is about 1/3 the distance from the front. I estimated in one of the posts above over 2,000 lbs of side load from a .25G turn of the motor home. Not saying that there would be over 10 times the movement at the higher load. The resistance to moving sideways is ramping up in all the bushings the more it moves sideways. Just saying that the watts linkage is doing its job.

I did use 8 bolts to anchor the top flange of the bracket to the MH frame crossmember, not the main frame rails. I went back to my text books. If the bolt hole diameter in a flange is less that 15% of the flange width, the strength of the flange is not compromised. With just one 5/16" holes across the 3.5" flange, there is still over 85% of the flange remaining. I have done other calcs to be sure this has enough strength. The good thing is that this is not holding up the MH. If it fails, the handling goes back to being sloppy.

Always interested in suggestions. 

[welleking]

I am liking these posts. I have done some different things having owned my Exec for 20 plus years and being a retired RV tech.  

When I bought it the front tires were lasting under 30k miles then showing metal plies on 1 side of the tire. Very hard to steer. After much searching and trials I found that 1 side of this coach was nearly 7/8 in lower than the other. Once that was corrected it was a total different drive.. Monaco spend thousands trying to correct this. I have the records to prove what I'm saying.. even spent a time in Josams if memory is right. Those places replaced bushings, tilted the front axle with a shim, tried virtually everything. While in Coburg i noticed a much nearer leveling on air. SO I separated the air suspension with ride rite controllers enabling me to see and control the pressures in each pair of bags. With nearing 27 years I am now in the process of replacing 2 air bags since 1 of the left front pair is leaking. 

1 thing I have not seen is the way this chassis reacts to a turn going up hill under a heavy load. I find myself backing off the throttle more than Id really like during those turns.. 

LOVING LIFE and my coach

[vanwill52]

Welleking,

You are backing off the throttle into turns because the side loading is changing the position of the H-frame, and your wheels are changing direction, even if your steering wheel is dead-steady in a constant radius turn.  To the driver, it seems like "oversteer" in a turn.  It is akin to the feeling of trying to drive a forklift (rear wheel steering) at speed on a roadway.  Ever tried that?  Scary!

No matter how many changes you make, until you stop the H-frame from "squirming" under you, and changing the direction your wheels are pointed, the problem will persist.  Tag axle coaches suffer much less from this simply because they have TWO fixed axles, which naturally resist having their direction changed.

[Ivylog]

“they have TWO fixed axles, which naturally resist having their direction changed” I thought the drive axle was mounted to the same squirming H frame?

[welleking]

Van I understand the torque is causing a minor twist in that rear H frame but at 78 I am not sure it is enough of a irritant to look at repairing it. At most we drive 15k a year towing a new to us FORD EDGE. most of the work done on this was because of the steering and front tire wear.

I need to figure out to replace that VW toad note

[StephenW]

welleking, if you would like to change your signature line, go to the home page and click on your name in the upper right hand corner, go down the list and click on Account Settings and you will see a menu on the left.  Click on Signature to change anything in your signature line.

[ok-rver]

Finishing up the watts linkage today, torqued the tie rod ends and installed cotter pins. Was looking at the original Monroe shock on the front. Double rubber donuts on top stud did not look squashed. Twisted upper protector sleeve and very little resistance. Ended up tightening all 8 top studs as they were loose. Could not find a recommendation on how much they should be tightened so tightened until good resistance too rotation. Several months ago, I cut the foam along the front and rear edges of the rear wheel covers so they could be lifted up. Covered in a different post. Picture shows how "easy" it is to get into the wheel well to get to the stud. Tightening the rubber probably takes 1/4" of slack out of the shock rod moving with the shock body. Probably will not see any difference in ride. 

Only down side I see in cutting the foam on the wheel coves is that driving in rain water might be able to migrate water into other storage bays.

 

[ok-rver]

We are leaving end of May for a 5,000 mile trip from Tulsa up thru the NW USA. With the price of diesel what it is, I elected to install a AG Diesel chip. The wife and I did a 50 mile loop to confirm that it is functioning correctly. Will comment on gas mileage increase after 1,500 or so miles. Just b4 back to the storage bay, I told the wife that I thought the handling was at a point were she would not be as stressed when she drove due to the wandering. Her statement was that she could tell a great reduction in the amount of movement when we were passed by 18 wheelers. I was aware of the reduction but never thought about the seat of the pants feel from the right seat.  

While I elected to install a special fabricated bracket, the parts from Mike Hughes at MonacoWatts are absolutely first class. IMO, the X-braces in the rear are an absolute necessity for any RR8R/S chassis. The Watts in the front got it to a point where I can take my hands off the wheel for a short period of time. Two finger driving to keep it in its lane even when being passed by a truck.  About $1,700 invested which will take us from tired after 4 hours, X-braces got us to 6 hours, front Watts to maybe over 8 hour days when needing to cover ground. Time will tell. 

May you have fair winds,

[Tom Cherry]

3 hours ago, ok-rver said:

We are leaving end of May for a 5,000 mile trip from Tulsa up thru the NW USA. With the price of diesel what it is, I elected to install a AG Diesel chip. The wife and I did a 50 mile loop to confirm that it is functioning correctly. Will comment on gas mileage increase after 1,500 or so miles. Just b4 back to the storage bay, I told the wife that I thought the handling was at a point were she would not be as stressed when she drove due to the wandering. Her statement was that she could tell a great reduction in the amount of movement when we were passed by 18 wheelers. I was aware of the reduction but never thought about the seat of the pants feel from the right seat.  

While I elected to install a special fabricated bracket, the parts from Mike Hughes at MonacoWatts are absolutely first class. IMO, the X-braces in the rear are an absolute necessity for any RR8R/S chassis. The Watts in the front got it to a point where I can take my hands off the wheel for a short period of time. Two finger driving to keep it in its lane even when being passed by a truck.  About $1,700 invested which will take us from tired after 4 hours, X-braces got us to 6 hours, front Watts to maybe over 8 hour days when needing to cover ground. Time will tell. 

May you have fair winds,

Right on.  I invested about $3500 and got the Source Engineering Platinum or larger Billsteins up front and their standard Billsteins in the rear.  These are the specially valved ones made for Source only as they set the proprietary specs on the valving.  I also installed their front and rear sway bars, which are (were?) manufactured by Roadmaster, but sold with the Source name.  I had put on a Blue Ox TruCenter (memory) or adjustable steering stabilizer in 2010.  The shocks and sway bars were a 2012 install as my OEM Monroe’s were making me and DW seasick.  Add in a new set of Bridgestone tires.  OK, that’s in 2012.
 

That was MORE than a vast improvement.  My DW likes to read as we drive.  She couldn’t in the MH after a year or so….otherwise after 30 minutes, she had a splitting headache.  She then, sort of “challenged” me to take her for a ride so she could feel the improvement that my wad of money, over $7,500…. That was the new tires and the suspension upgrades.  I did most of the labor myself, but did not have the compressor or air gun for the front stabilizer.  We did about 75 miles around Raleigh.  I had done the shocks and sway bars in stages…and I could feel a small, but noticeable improvement each time.  She said, hey this is nice….it feels like a “heavier” coach….as in the Prevost tour busses we had spent a lot of time in.  Perhaps an exaggeration…but she COULD feel the improvement.  OK….we take off on a 4,000 mile trip.  Natchez Trace…where we did the whole thing.  Headed out I 40…and after two days, headed south.  At the end of the second day, I asked her….how’s your head.  Say WHAT?  I said it must be hurting as you read 4 - 5 hours PER DAY for 2 days and finished one book and started on the other.  OMG or an EXCLAMATION….  YOU ARE RIGHT….THERE IS A MAJOR DIFFERENCE.  When your DW says you are right….the heavens open up.  

She had not realized the fact that she could read almost all day and not get a splitting headache.  The subject of “you spent HOW MUCH” never came up again.

OK…..BEFORE VAN GOES CRAZY AND FLAMES ME…this was a RIDE IMPROVEMENT..now, a secondary benefit was that the heavier shocks and the sway bars also “reduced” the FEEL of the wandering and the cross winds and trucks passing you.  IN NO WAY DID IT ELIMINATE IT, but it WAS REDUCED….so, I am NOT arguing with him…as he and others, including David Pratt and Mike Hughes REALLY understand the chassis.  David upgraded his 2005 Executive with a custom built Watts kit and said that the “Blue Ox TruCenter” seemed to be more “proactive” or made the steering easier.

BINGO…that was more than enough.  I ordered, circa 2015 or maybe 2016, Mike’s kit and actually put it on at Van’s place.  He graciously provided tech support and water and then tweaked, only a little, my TRW box.  BUT, when I maneuvered around to got out of his backyard and got to the end of his winding driveway, I was CONVINCED.  This was heads and shoulders above what I had, but it was more in the steering and the stability while driving.  One member had gone the same route and took off his heavier Source shocks….mine are still on.  I had put about 25K on the Source upgrades and it did reduce the cross winds “effect”  in North Dakota.  Then after Mike’s Watts, it was again, day and night,  I opted NOT to get the additional 5 - 10% of the total package and passed on the X rear bars.  I know they will make a difference, but with the shocks and sway bars, I don’t know if I would notice it that much…

Bottom LINE.  Many here and on the old site, that went down similar paths….all put the Watts Front  link as the first and primary UPGRADE,  if you don’t have the TRW box, that is also a necessity,  NOW…the rest is personal….I LIKE the Blue Ox TruCenter as it improves the handling ….but it now has “less” of an impact….and as David says, I don’t tweak it as often…and it will stay centered and there is less or no wander.  I have gone at least a mile or more on an average level, straight interstate with no hands steering….only cupped around the wheel, but not touching, as a safety.  Nary a wander or veering right or left…

It would be an “experiment” to have many members here, if I could, drive the Camelot for say 50 miles and then pull the front sway bar….drive again…and then pull the rear.  I used to do product development and testing.   You need a good “design of experiments” and a wide range of qualified testers or users and keep meticulous notes.  As an aside, that is exactly what Source did when they developed their shocks,  They bought and rented and also used owners MH’s.  They also paid professional drivers to drive the same course with each valving change.  They also had a lot of owners driving their rigs over the same course.  They paid Bilstein to bring in their “shock trailer”….an OTR shock shop….much like each NASCAR team has….a master tech with instruments to measure movement and pressure’s in a clean room.  Dale Earnhardt, when he was alive, said that his highest paying tech was the shock guy and his assistant….then the engine builders.  I am from NASCAR country and have toured 3 or 4 shops and have connections to Hendrick and have gone through twice by myself on a vip guided tour and talked to the shock guys.  So…Source spent a lot.  I like their shocks and they are guaranteed for the life of my MH, regardless of ownership.  I have had one leak and got a shock air freighted in the next day…without putting a credit card number on file.

BUT, for all the ride improvement I got from the Source upgrades, I got triple that in pure “handling” from the Watts link kit from Mike.  Right now, I have to “slow down” when making an exit or taking a sharper curve.  My DW says I drive a bit “more aggressively” now than before.  I am NOT a professional, but I have done a few high performance driving schools and been “Petty” several times and got top speeds way above my “age”.  I also am on my third Vette, so I appreciate handling.  

The very first thing that anyone does to a Roadmaster  Chassis HAS to add the Watts link….and I KNOW Mike’s is top drawer.  Past that, I will say that I am leaving my MH alone….and not changing or experimenting….but I probably might not have gone with the full Source upgrades had I had the Watts first.  NOW, the Monroe shocks were driving my wife crazy….so the Source or Koni’s for that matter were a matter of necessity….and I chose Source….others have had great success with Koni’s.  Van likes  a softer ride….but there is a difference in the “just installed” Monroe softer ride than in the 20,000 mile totally worn out and have no pressure ones I had.  I dare say mine were utterly useless.  I measured the compression force with a scale.  I had less than 20 pounds of resistance…..and about the same on the extension….my Source shocks were upwards of 100…probably a bit stiff….but only 20 pounds will allow our behemoths to porpoise and ride like an ocean liner in a storm…and make you seasick…

AGAIN. I applaud Van and David and others here for their research and work and experiments….and for bringing in Mike.  Now, I have also talked to Dynasty and upper end owners.  They don’t seem to have the same Issues as we Camelot and Scepter folks….. Even the Camelots with a Tag Axle, seem to have less “wander” or sway.  Source says they tested the rear sway on a tag and it was not much improvement.  BTW, their sway bar is actually a Wayne Wells design.  Wayne works for Roadmaster (Tow Bar).  They developed it, but Monaco would not purchase….but Source sells it, or did, as “their” product, but it shipped directly from Roadmaster.  But for us with only two axles….and the lower end frames, the Watts link is a blessing.  Mike, I think, has demonstrated improvements on the Dynasty chassis….so I will leave it as that.

This is way TOO LONG, but is a composite of my journey.  I now have over 25K on the Camelot with Mike’s Watts link and have been in at least 30 states, including North and South Dakota and a run from NC to the west coast and up Washington as well as trips into Canada and some of the upper provinces, such as PEI on the Confederation bridge….and driver fatigue, even at my 77 years is not a major factor.  Once you install a Watts, you will say….why did I wait this long…. 

[Ivylog]

I would suggest if you get test drivers, you do not tell them whether the “improvements” are connected or not.

I’m also 77 and still do the 1500 miles to CO in 2 days… 8+ round trips in a 04 Dynasty (80K miles on it) and another 3  in our 08 Navigator. Other than adjusting the TRW boxes, the Dynasty is at 100K miles (still in the family) and the Nav at 70K miles… everything is original.

OK, instead of throwing the Safe-T-+ previous owner put on the Nav, I made it adjustable on the fly. Not sure how just adding a tag axle makes such a difference in a rig that wanders, but glad it dies as I love driving the S-10 chassis.

[ok-rver]

We are back from our 5,000 MH mile trip from Tulsa thru Yellowstone, WA, Portland to see son, northern CA redwoods, Rogue river, Crater Lake, Zion, Bryce,  Lake Powell, lower CO and back to Tulsa. The front watts and rear X-braces made the trip doable up to 8 hours per day. Even tightening up the shock mounts at top may have helped a bit with the ride. 

For under $2,000, Mike's handling components make driving much less stressful if you travel far and or long days. 

[GNRACN]

Exceptionally well written and spoken! Or as they say "nailed it" Thank You!

[Guest CjnCook]

WIthout going through all the post to find it, Does anyone have contact information to start the Watt's Link purchase and install? And still being fairly young at 65 with access to all the tools I need, can it be a DYI?

[JDCrow]

21 minutes ago, CjnCook said:

WIthout going through all the post to find it, Does anyone have contact information to start the Watt's Link purchase and install? And still being fairly young at 65 with access to all the tools I need, can it be a DYI?

Most definitely a DYI project. 
 

https://monacowatts.com/contacts.htm

[Tom Cherry]

8 minutes ago, CjnCook said:

WIthout going through all the post to find it, Does anyone have contact information to start the Watt's Link purchase and install? And still being fairly young at 65 with access to all the tools I need, can it be a DYI?

Moderators Note.

Please use the search function to locate information.  That is what most do.  Or GOOGLE. Thanks in advance for doing this in the future.

However,  In answer to your questions.

https://www.monacoers.org/topic/212-monaco-watts-llc-mike-hughes/

see the above.  Interestingly enough, I actually Googled MIKE Hughes Watts Link….and the first hit was Scotty’s post above.  We be FAMOUS.  LOL

Second, I installed mine a few months prior to my 74th Birthday.  You DO need to READ about how to install.  Many articles out there.  Mike’s instructions were good back then, probably better, but I did my homework and it sent smoothly.

 It is imperative is to PREGREASE the center fitting.  

It is imperative to loosen and work the nuts and the studs on the ball joints.

It is imperative to look at the WATTS ball joint assembly when you do your pre assembly.  You might not be able to get to one of the fittings on the joints when you return it to ride height.  

it is imperative to know the ride height……..don’t know if you have jacks or air. 

Finally, assume you have researched enough to know that if you have a Shepherd steering sector, the improvements are nil to marginal….so swap out the box first….if you have a TRW, proceed and be amazed.  Read my post above as I only did the Watts, but I had other enhancements.  You might want to understand and evaluate the X BRACES also

 

[JefattheLake]

On 4/14/2022 at 10:13 AM, vanwill52 said:

Start by reducing your steering wheel lost motion to ZERO.  If you have a Sheppard steering box, replace it with TRW.  Don't believe the hogwash about "blueprinting" a Sheppard gear.  If you have a TRW steering gear, adjust it to zero play when the wheels are pointed DEAD AHEAD.

Hello Everyone,

Let me just begin by thanking all you for the great contributions of information.

I realize this quote is old, but then again, so are some of our coaches.

I haven't owned my coach very long, but have pulled bumper pulls and 5r's in the past.  I know a thing or two about wind and passing truck buffeting.  I was a 18 wheeler driver for 25 years, so, I do have somewhat of a "seat of the pants" driving skill.  I know what it "should" feel like, and want my coach to cooperate.  This lead me to "find" out what I could do to tame my coach.

I just this week installed the MonacoWatts linkage in the front, and the X bars in the rear of my coach.  I found all of the components of both of these "kits" to be extremely well made.  The instructions that were included were great!  I only found one tool that was not on the "suggested" tools necessary for installation list.  A 11/16" socket, absolutely no big deal.  But it was another trip out from under the coach. 🙂  Really looking forward to going on the "test" run to Williams, AZ this next week.  The only two modifications I had to make to my coach was to (1)trim the front mud flaps and (2)move the mounting bolts (one on each side) for them, so I could attach the MonacoWatts linkage mounting brackets

I had already installed the Safe-T-Plus.  That being said, I didn't see / feel an  improvement in the Safe-T-Plus regarding side to side movement of the coach.  I also, would NOT recommend it for this issue.  However, having a steering "stabilizer" on a coach "probably" is a good idea, IMHO?

At this point I feel I only have one other point that I can adjust / cover, which I didn't know about to start with.

How do I reduce my TRW steering gear box, TAS652288, TRW, to ZERO lost motion?

Thanks in advance for any and all assistance,  another GREAT shout out and thumbs up to MonacoWatts, Michael Hughes, great looking product and instructions.

Jef

 

[Tom Cherry]

46 minutes ago, JefattheLake said:

Hello Everyone,

Let me just begin by thanking all you for the great contributions of information.

I realize this quote is old, but then again, so are some of our coaches.

I haven't owned my coach very long, but have pulled bumper pulls and 5r's in the past.  I know a thing or two about wind and passing truck buffeting.  I was a 18 wheeler driver for 25 years, so, I do have somewhat of a "seat of the pants" driving skill.  I know what it "should" feel like, and want my coach to cooperate.  This lead me to "find" out what I could do to tame my coach.

I just this week installed the MonacoWatts linkage in the front, and the X bars in the rear of my coach.  I found all of the components of both of these "kits" to be extremely well made.  The instructions that were included were great!  I only found one tool that was not on the "suggested" tools necessary for installation list.  A 11/16" socket, absolutely no big deal.  But it was another trip out from under the coach. 🙂  Really looking forward to going on the "test" run to Williams, AZ this next week.  The only two modifications I had to make to my coach was to (1)trim the front mud flaps and (2)move the mounting bolts (one on each side) for them, so I could attach the MonacoWatts linkage mounting brackets

I had already installed the Safe-T-Plus.  That being said, I didn't see / feel an  improvement in the Safe-T-Plus regarding side to side movement of the coach.  I also, would NOT recommend it for this issue.  However, having a steering "stabilizer" on a coach "probably" is a good idea, IMHO?

At this point I feel I only have one other point that I can adjust / cover, which I didn't know about to start with.

How do I reduce my TRW steering gear box, TAS652288, TRW, to ZERO lost motion?

Thanks in advance for any and all assistance,  another GREAT shout out and thumbs up to MonacoWatts, Michael Hughes, great looking product and instructions.

Jef

 

@vanwill52 is the hands down expert.  This will alert him.  He is the guru and knows how to tweak the TRW.

i would quibble with your comment about the steering stabilizer.  It’s original and stated purpose is to control the sensitivity in the steering….plus the advertised benefits.  It, based on my reading and personal experiences, something that is needed as the Monaco Power Steering, in my and others with one having professionally driving and chassis design background, the steering stabilizer reduces the sawing back and forth on the wheel.  Many folks over the years have talked about the steer and stabilize 2 handed method.  You steer with one hand and use the other (presumably pulling slightly down) hand to control the wandering and the sensitivity of the power steering.  I had one installed about 10K, then did the other upgrades….then finally the Watts.  The leverage or mechanical advantage of the stabilizer is unbelievable.

I would comment if you haven’t purchased and installed the “trim kit”, then you should….that is why i chose the Blue OZ unit.  That’s my take…

[Ivylog]

I removed a S-T-+ stabilizer until I could adjust it on the fly…made driving tiring.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/making-a-safe-t-plus-adjustable-451209.html

[Tom Cherry]

3 hours ago, Ivylog said:

I removed a S-T-+ stabilizer until I could adjust it on the fly…made driving tiring.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/making-a-safe-t-plus-adjustable-451209.html

That is i listened to many folks with much more chassis experience than i have.  The Blue OX has an electric solenoid trim adjustment.  Henderson’s also, i think, makes a trim kit for super steer.  There are many threads lamenting not having an adjustment or trim kit for Saf T Plus.

The Watts link made my Blue Ox more effective and the reduction in driver fatigue is unbelievable.  David Pratt experimented and put a Watts on his 05 Exec….same result.  We both like ours.

[JefattheLake]

19 hours ago, Ivylog said:

I removed a S-T-+ stabilizer until I could adjust it on the fly…made driving tiring.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/making-a-safe-t-plus-adjustable-451209.html

Dick B,  I really like your idea.  Do you still have / use it?  Have you modified it from the original, as you stated you might?

I would like to go this route.  Could you give me the dimensions, angles and so forth?  And possibly which actuator?  The one you used looks like the motor hangs upside down behind the front axle.  I would prefer one that runs along the same axis as the actuating shaft as a "different" solution, more compact?  For instance this one on e-bay, Heavy Duty Linear Actuator 4" inch Stroke 225 Lb Pound Max Lift 12V Volt DC? https://www.ebay.com/itm/184363648347?hash=item2aecee055b:g:JhoAAOSwykRiqu9s&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA0EXW9%2F6USjDG%2FUaaxyNAhc%2ByMYnpPxTgQujRxRHBMorswIe03U0FnXl3AVqU0UlDke1lE9sJdfdhZveF3K6h4cl8B2R0aqcT4yIYGjcpSkBdtAZpVW3j43P7tKmifqvoMbxKcGAZJB7bizw9D8kecmTRgzaQjS%2BCWwQrYeGlMPynqPp05Oz9dh4RIFfkqovb5AOnwokwqoD2lgZ56aGWw9X5LiGrsqTOMXBai2jBoE429uCHLRYGK7lw%2FIU%2BkZnVNmkHXtqpKn4j%2FUA6KsZQ58M%3D|tkp%3ABk9SR5qB2rqCYg

Would that be enough travel to get the 1" of adjustability you were talking about?

Thanks again for your input.

So much information, keeps me thinking.

What next?

[Ivylog]

Yes I’m still using and like it. The motor doesn’t stick down further than the front cap plus being at the axle, never gets closer to the road. Could use a little more adjustment so I would use a 6” stroke. I looked at something like that but only 220lbs bothered me. The S-T-+ mounting arm limits the mechanical advantage to 3 to 1 so I would use the below. This arm that pivots would have to be a little further away for the 3” of travel towards the mounting plate and the longer length of the activator.

Edited May 14, 2023 by Ivylog