2007 Dynasty Queen zone 1 a/c has no power

[TOBYLB4]

This is a 07 Dynasty with duo-Therm 15,000 a/c heat pump. Zone 1 a/c has no power. I have power at the breaker and leaving the breaker. Am I missing something? Is there something in between? The other 2 units work fine. Can't imagine the romex is broke, as the breaker should have tripped. Any help appreciated.

[Fasthobie16]

Is the thermostat set for a/c in that zone and at a cool enough temperature to bring it on? If so try to switch it to the fan only mode. If it runs, then I’d look toward a capacitor in the unit itself. 

[Ivylog]

I’ll assume you are checking the 120V at the control board on the roof?

[TOBYLB4]

7 minutes ago, Fasthobie16 said:

Is the thermostat set for a/c in that zone and at a cool enough temperature to bring it on? If so try to switch it to the fan only mode. If it runs, then I’d look toward a capacitor in the unit itself. 

No power at all to this unit, fan has no power. the other zone 2 on this thermostat works fine.

8 minutes ago, Ivylog said:

I’ll assume you are checking the 120V at the control board on the roof?

Yes checked for power at the control board, none there.

[nvrtoofast]

I'm unsure if this helps. On mine there are two fuses for AC. one at the main house fuse panel and a second inside the metal box under/inside the unit. this could be checked but not necessarily the issue.

[Tom Cherry]

38 minutes ago, TOBYLB4 said:

No power at all to this unit, fan has no power. the other zone 2 on this thermostat works fine.

Yes checked for power at the control board, none there.

Try this….

http://bryantrv.com/docs2/docs/ccc5.pdf

This is a step by step from Dometic….  Rarely have we seen a Romex line cut or nicked, but it does happen when the line gets hit with a screw or is pinched.  At the end of the day, I would take a heavy duty extension cord and use a 120 3 wire pigtail and hook up external AC.  The HVAC unit doesn’t care where the AC comes from.  The thermostat control circuit must be intact.  Assuming you still “see” zone 1, then with known, good power it should work.  If it doesn’t, then the issue is either the control (switching) board or the starting capacitor.

The tip about switching to fan and running it will work….ASSUMING that the control board or module is switching.

Good luck.  Please give us feedback on what you find and what fixes this…

I think the file is attached….sometimes from my iPad, it gets funky….

ccc5.pdf

[TOBYLB4]

8 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Try this….

http://bryantrv.com/docs2/docs/ccc5.pdf

This is a step by step from Dometic….  Rarely have we seen a Romex line cut or nicked, but it does happen when the line gets hit with a screw or is pinched.  At the end of the day, I would take a heavy duty extension cord and use a 120 3 wire pigtail and hook up external AC.  The HVAC unit doesn’t care where the AC comes from.  The thermostat control circuit must be intact.  Assuming you still “see” zone 1, then with known, good power it should work.  If it doesn’t, then the issue is either the control (switching) board or the starting capacitor.

The tip about switching to fan and running it will work….ASSUMING that the control board or module is switching.

Good luck.  Please give us feedback on what you find and what fixes this…

I think the file is attached….sometimes from my iPad, it gets funky….

ccc5.pdf 672.56 kB · 0 downloads

Thanks Tom, I will try that this afternoon and let you know. I'm sure power is the issue, just not sure why it's not there. If it were a broken romex wire I would assume the breaker would trip.

[Hypoxia]

I have a perfectly good heat pump in storage that had been replaced due to a loose wire nut which was discovered when the new unit was installed on a friends coach..

[vito.a]

Jim is right.  Drop the inside filter assembly down and find the wire nuts.  They should be inside a metal junction box.  Clean the connections and reapply the wire nuts.  

[LakeBob]

Check the phone jack type connections above the air intake.  Mine were dirty on one unit causing it not to run. 

 

[TOBYLB4]

1 hour ago, Hypoxia said:

I have a perfectly good heat pump in storage that had been replaced due to a loose wire nut which was discovered when the new unit was installed on a friends coach..

Jim, I will keep that in mind if mine turns out to be bad. Where is it located and how much do want for it?

33 minutes ago, vito.a said:

Jim is right.  Drop the inside filter assembly down and find the wire nuts.  They should be inside a metal junction box.  Clean the connections and reapply the wire nuts.  

Vito, I will check that, but I can see the romex going into that box and checked and there is no power going into that box.

[Ivan K]

Could the zone 1 romex be going through the rear or center unit's junction box for some weird reason? I know it should not.

[Hypoxia]

36 minutes ago, TOBYLB4 said:

Jim, I will keep that in mind if mine turns out to be bad. Where is it located and how much do want for it?

I'm keeping it for a spare.  Just wanted to make the point about faulty troubleshooting.

[Hypoxia]

4 hours ago, TOBYLB4 said:

Jim, I will keep that in mind if mine turns out to be bad. Where is it located and how much do want for it?

I'm keeping it for a spare.  Just wanted to make the point about faulty troubleshooting.

[Hypoxia]

Duh, I just realized you are probably talking about the rear A/C unit with the 00-00714-000 Intellitec Automatic Energy Select Switch which is wired with the Washer/Dryer as the Primary Load which will shut off the rear A/C unit.  

Page 141 of this wiring diagram book 2007 Wiring Diagram  Mine is under a false floor in the rear closet.

"AUTOMATIC ENERGY SELECT SWITCH PART NUMBER 00-00714-000, INTELLITEC NEXT TO WASHER/DRYER RECEPT, NEXT TO MAIN BREAKER BOX, BEHIND TV, OR UNDER BEDROOM WARDROBE"

Automatic Energy Select AC Washing Machine 53-00714-000.pdf

[TOBYLB4]

56 minutes ago, Hypoxia said:

Duh, I just realized you are probably talking about the rear A/C unit with the 00-00714-000 Intellitec Automatic Energy Select Switch which is wired with the Washer/Dryer as the Primary Load which will shut off the rear A/C unit.  

Page 141 of this wiring diagram book 2007 Wiring Diagram  Mine is under a false floor in the rear closet.

"AUTOMATIC ENERGY SELECT SWITCH PART NUMBER 00-00714-000, INTELLITEC NEXT TO WASHER/DRYER RECEPT, NEXT TO MAIN BREAKER BOX, BEHIND TV, OR UNDER BEDROOM WARDROBE"

Automatic Energy Select AC Washing Machine 53-00714-000.pdf 359.32 kB · 2 downloads

Thanks Jim, yes it's the bedroom a/c. I will have to take a look for it. It has to be something between the breaker and the a/c junction box.

[Tom Cherry]

14 hours ago, TOBYLB4 said:

Thanks Jim, yes it's the bedroom a/c. I will have to take a look for it. It has to be something between the breaker and the a/c junction box.

OK…the puzzle is starting to make sense,  

@Hypoxia, look at your manual.  Start with page 106.  The notes there tell the tale.

@TOBYLB4, good catch.  The Dynasty 2007 OM says that “Zone 3 (rear bedroom AC) will be displayed as Zone 1 on the REAR TStat”.  Other than being a bit “illogical”, it now makes sense.

You have to understand that the majority of the posters here have a single TStat and it is in the area right back of the kitchen/living area.  If one has a middle AC, it is designated as Zone 2 (and has a separate hard wired temperature sensor in the hallway) and the Zone 3 is the rear.  NOW, your manual says you have 2 TStats.  Yet, in 2008, the Dynasty owners has only ONE, up front TSat.  Typical Monaco. BUT, it DOES have an extra “Dometic” Zone….as in a Dometic roof top, I think, controller, that runs or controls the .bathroom AH heat exchanger.  So much for all coaches being sim8lar….

SO, when folks started to chime in, we assumed you were talking about the FRONT AC unit. Turns out, it is your REAR AC.  

Again. Most folks that are BELOW the Dynasty or it’s counterpart, the Imperial, ALSO have an Intellitec EMS or load shedding system.  You do NOT. You have, based on the wiring and the manual, a dedicated 2 (series strung) Intellitec load shedding system that prevents you from running the REAR AC if you are using the Washer Dryer or an Electric Stove.  BOTTOM LINE…. THIS is where, probably, the issue lies.  Could be a loose connection or a faulty Intellitec.

I suggest you research your system in the owners manual and also click on the Intellitec link to understand and also trouble shoot.

As an aside, Intellitec’s tech support is M&M RV Electronics in Ohio City, OH. Google them. A father and son team.  Very helpful.  Call them for help.

Let us know when you resolve this and what the issue was…..hopefully a loose connection.  Good Luck.

[TOBYLB4]

33 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

OK…the puzzle is starting to make sense,  

@Hypoxia, look at your manual.  Start with page 106.  The notes there tell the tale.

@TOBYLB4, good catch.  The Dynasty 2007 OM says that “Zone 3 (rear bedroom AC) will be displayed as Zone 1 on the REAR TStat”.  Other than being a bit “illogical”, it now makes sense.

You have to understand that the majority of the posters here have a single TStat and it is in the area right back of the kitchen/living area.  If one has a middle AC, it is designated as Zone 2 (and has a separate hard wired temperature sensor in the hallway) and the Zone 3 is the rear.  NOW, your manual says you have 2 TStats.  Yet, in 2008, the Dynasty owners has only ONE, up front TSat.  Typical Monaco. BUT, it DOES have an extra “Dometic” Zone….as in a Dometic roof top, I think, controller, that runs or controls the .bathroom AH heat exchanger.  So much for all coaches being sim8lar….

SO, when folks started to chime in, we assumed you were talking about the FRONT AC unit. Turns out, it is your REAR AC.  

Again. Most folks that are BELOW the Dynasty or it’s counterpart, the Imperial, ALSO have an Intellitec EMS or load shedding system.  You do NOT. You have, based on the wiring and the manual, a dedicated 2 (series strung) Intellitec load shedding system that prevents you from running the REAR AC if you are using the Washer Dryer or an Electric Stove.  BOTTOM LINE…. THIS is where, probably, the issue lies.  Could be a loose connection or a faulty Intellitec.

I suggest you research your system in the owners manual and also click on the Intellitec link to understand and also trouble shoot.

As an aside, Intellitec’s tech support is M&M RV Electronics in Ohio City, OH. Google them. A father and son team.  Very helpful.  Call them for help.

Let us know when you resolve this and what the issue was…..hopefully a loose connection.  Good Luck.

Tom, thanks so much. I just assumed when I said zone 1 everyone new it was the bedroom a/c. All the help is appreciated thanks again. Hope to get back to it this evening.

 

[Frank McElroy]

The Intellitec load shed modules have been known to fail.  In my case it was a loose wire.  Others have eliminated their failed module and would remember to just run either the rear AC or the washer but not both at the same time.  This module does not use FLA rated relays for switching heavy AC loads.  Over time they will fail.  It is a good practice to not rely on this load shed module but rather to shut off the rear AC unit when using the washer.

[Hypoxia]

The AES box can be opened and wiring is easily accessible.  You can switch the black primary and secondary wire position and the A/C should work.  No need to move the white or ground wires as they are common.

00-00714-000 For Sale on eBay

Automatic Energy Select Switch
Date datasheet created: 19/04/2013
Intellitec’s Automatic Energy Select Switch (AESS) is designed to be used in RVs to share the power available from a single circuit breaker between two large loads. The AESS applies power to both appliances until the primary load is turned on. It then removes power from the secondary load
to prevent the circuit breaker from being overloaded. This function is particularly useful for sharing power between the microwave oven and another “sheddable” or postpone-able appliance, such as the washer/dryer, or water heater.
Typically, this function has performed with selector switches, forcing the owner to manually switch between the two appliances.
The selecting function is particularly useful when the
microwave oven is the principal load. Power is always available to it, assuring that the customer can use the microwave whenever required and it’s internal clock remains operating. While the microwave is in use, the function of the secondary load is postponed until the microwave is finished.
Features
• Allows two 20 Amp loads to operate from a single 20 Amp breaker
• Automatically switches between the two loads as the demand requires
• Meets NECsection 551-42(c) for adding breakers over the maximum limit of five and allowing for more than two, thermostatically controlled appliances.
• Minimizes circuit breaker tripping.
• Eliminates manual appliance select switches.
AESS OPERATION
The underlying principle of the AESS is that certain appliances used in an RV, such as the microwave
oven, hair dryer, or toaster need to always be available, when the owner wants to use them. These are “on demand” appliances. The use of others, such as the washer/dryer, water heater, or air conditioner can be delayed to a slightly later time with little inconvenience to the owner. These are
postpone-able loads. Postponing the use of these
appliances leaves enough power to operate the “on
demand” appliances.
Power is supplied to the AESS from a single circuit breaker. An “on demand” load is connected as the primary load and a “shed-able” load is connected as the secondary load. When power is applied to the RV, it is supplied to both loads. When the primary load is turned off and at least 45 seconds has
passed, power to the secondary load will be reapplied.
How it works
The Automatic Energy Select Switch controls power to two appliance loads. One appliance on the primary load is connected to the primary output and a shed-able appliance is connected to the secondary output. The output to the secondary load is carried through a relay.
When the shore cord is first plugged in, power flows through the AESS to the primary load and the relay is quickly closed, supplying power to the secondary load. When the primary load is turned off for more than 45 seconds, the power is re-applied to it.

Automatic Energy Select Switch
Date datasheet created:
19/04/2013
Specifications
Part Number: 00-00714-000
Ambient Temperature Range: -40C to +40C
Operating Environment: Out of direct weather
Delay before reapplying power: 45 seconds
Typical Wiring Diagram
Controled Load: One, OEM selectable
Relay Rating: (1) AC - 1 HP, 20A, 120 VAC 60 HZ
U.S. Patents: 4499385, 4617472

 

[Tom Cherry]

Comment for @Hypoxia

Frank has provided some insight. I was not familiar with the reliability of the unit,  IF you don’t have the electric stove or a dishwasher, then odds are, you only have ONE as the drawing is for BOTH options. Seems like a funky way for a “selector” switch just to allow you to operate ONE appliance from the dedicated breaker.

I would find it….verify that all the connections TO and FROM it are good, on the unit.  I believe that you have measured the voltage or checked for it at the AC inside the J-box.  That incoming line has to be directly wired to the Intellitec.  If you don’t get any voltage, then I would still temporarily hook up power from a heavy duty extension cable being fed from a good source.  IF the AC works, then as Frank suggested, bypass it and put a note on the Washer/dryer to turn OFF the rear AC as you only have breaker.  
 

The replacement module is $84 and is on Amazon.  Put the Intellitec PN and add Intellitec to it in the Amazon search box.  BUT…change the washer dryer usage and turn OFF the rear AC when doing laundry….otherwise, you will replace it again…
 

[TOBYLB4]

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

Comment for @Hypoxia

Frank has provided some insight. I was not familiar with the reliability of the unit,  IF you don’t have the electric stove or a dishwasher, then odds are, you only have ONE as the drawing is for BOTH options. Seems like a funky way for a “selector” switch just to allow you to operate ONE appliance from the dedicated breaker.

I would find it….verify that all the connections TO and FROM it are good, on the unit.  I believe that you have measured the voltage or checked for it at the AC inside the J-box.  That incoming line has to be directly wired to the Intellitec.  If you don’t get any voltage, then I would still temporarily hook up power from a heavy duty extension cable being fed from a good source.  IF the AC works, then as Frank suggested, bypass it and put a note on the Washer/dryer to turn OFF the rear AC as you only have breaker.  
 

The replacement module is $84 and is on Amazon.  Put the Intellitec PN and add Intellitec to it in the Amazon search box.  BUT…change the washer dryer usage and turn OFF the rear AC when doing laundry….otherwise, you will replace it again…
 

Thanks again to all as I'm getting a education. We've had our coach 2 years and didn't know this. Sure I will be learning more as we go. I will get it plugged in this evening and see if it works.

[TOBYLB4]

21 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Comment for @Hypoxia

Frank has provided some insight. I was not familiar with the reliability of the unit,  IF you don’t have the electric stove or a dishwasher, then odds are, you only have ONE as the drawing is for BOTH options. Seems like a funky way for a “selector” switch just to allow you to operate ONE appliance from the dedicated breaker.

I would find it….verify that all the connections TO and FROM it are good, on the unit.  I believe that you have measured the voltage or checked for it at the AC inside the J-box.  That incoming line has to be directly wired to the Intellitec.  If you don’t get any voltage, then I would still temporarily hook up power from a heavy duty extension cable being fed from a good source.  IF the AC works, then as Frank suggested, bypass it and put a note on the Washer/dryer to turn OFF the rear AC as you only have breaker.  
 

The replacement module is $84 and is on Amazon.  Put the Intellitec PN and add Intellitec to it in the Amazon search box.  BUT…change the washer dryer usage and turn OFF the rear AC when doing laundry….otherwise, you will replace it again…
 

Update last evening I found my AESS under the bedroom wardrobe. I swapped the primary and secondary and this allowed the a/c to work. 

Thanks again for all the knowledge from this group. Owning a coach is a learning experience.

[Hypoxia]

I replaced my AES around 8 years ago & it has not failed.  I carry a spare AES which just keeps collecting dust, that's fine with me.

Good to hear you found it. 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, TOBYLB4 said:

Update last evening I found my AESS under the bedroom wardrobe. I swapped the primary and secondary and this allowed the a/c to work. 

Thanks again for all the knowledge from this group. Owning a coach is a learning experience.

Great…..at the risk of “dissing” your understanding.  You now have the rear AC working, but you no longer, assuming  the AESS is the culprit, have or can operate your washer/dryer….which my DW would go bonkers without.  Frank is a valuable resource.  We talked yesterday and he pointed out the design flaw with this system.  It actually is not a Monaco issue, but an Intellitec problem.  That module was never designed for FLA switching (Full Load Amperage).  It also doesn’t address,,from a real world, the toggling back and forth….if I understand.  Since the primary is the W/D, there if the potential, and I assume others have reported this, for the W/D to reduce the current draw during cycles and then you have intermittentn switching ON of the AC and then back off.  That, PROBABLY, results in contact erosion and reduces the life or makes it intermittent.

@Hypoxia has commented and for $8X, you can replace it.  BUT…assuming that Intellitec has not “improved” the design, the EITHER/OR (WD or AC) rule should apply and you can “drive” on.  Otherwise, you risk failure again.

@Frank McElroy has also commented and offered an option,  which is to eliminate the AESS and connect both loads, AC & W/D is a simple approach.  The only Caveat is that there has to be an UNBROKEN RULE.  TURN OFF AC (set to OFF Mode) WHEN USING WASHER DRYER.  Now, the Furnace can be, of course used since it is the AquaHot.

If you want a fool proof solution, that eliminates the “mental challenge” of the EITHER/OR, then, for around $40 in parts (Amazon), you can replace the AESS with a 30A SPDT Contactor and use a simple toggle switch to select W/D or AC.  I will, offline, provide you with the parts numbers from Amazon and a circuit.  This is not complex,  If you switches the loads, you should be able to handle it.  The Primary is NOW AC and that goes to the NC contact.  The W/D is secondary and when you turn on the toggle switch, you energize the relay coil and the W/D has power.  
 

BE AWARE…..the elimination or replacement of the AESS is a “modification” to the original Monaco design…..which many of us do or have done as we believe our approach is equivalent to or is an improvement….AND we have, based on our knowledge or research or with the help of an “expert” made the decision and it meets NEC and/or RVIA standards.  I only say this as I dealt with too many product liability lawyers during my career when I was involved in design.

THE SECOND THING…. This was an education for me, and I hope others.  It also, like another recent Dometic problem, points out that even in the same model as well as in the same year, one can NOT make assumptions or try to help trouble shoot another poster without FULLY understanding that what was done in, say MY 2008, MIGHT (often is) different in MY 2009.  So, without the prints for both MY as well the Owners Manual, the “Mine is like this…yours should be” logic can be wrong.  I really wonder how marketable some of the seemingly trivial changes or upgrades in the next or subsequent years, that I and others now know, will be…..but we keep learning…

Good Luck.  Let us know what you decide to do for a functional system…as you have eliminated the operation of your W/D now….