Valve Leak - What is this?

[bestins]

The pictured valve is leaking in the middle. I need help with what type of valve this is & where to purchase a replacement.

 

Thanks in advance

 

about the leaking valve,  sorry left off info.  2008 diplomat skq.  the valve is on the front air tank.

[Gary 05 AMB DST]

Is it leaking air or water? Have you purged the air tanks lately?

Gary 05 AMB DST

[Bill R]

That is a Pressure Protection Valve (PPV).  I replaced my with World American Part No. WAKN31000.  But where is it leaking?  At the airline connection?   Tank Connection? Or is the PPV what's leaking?  Spray some soapy water on it to see where it is leaking.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Bill R

[Ivylog]

Looks like the fitting is leaking where it threads into the tank. Doubt you can get a full turn so remove the airlines… push in on the ring, remove fitting, put Teflon tape on threads, and put back in. 

[bestins]

Its leaking air. Its not leaking where it threads into tank. Looking at it, there are 3 sections-the top 2 parts are round and the bottom 6 sided like a nut. Its leaking between the second and third section.( used soapy water to find leak).

[96 EVO]

Like previous members have said, it's a pressure protection valve (PPV).

When you replace it, rotate it 180deg. It's facing the wrong way.

There's probably a small drain hole at the top. Should be at the bottom.

Edited January 23, 2023 by 96 EVO

[jacwjames]

Based on the picture this must be your front tank.  Each hose/tube is color coded to tell what it is for.  I have a diagram for the air systems on Dynasty and Windsor, it is slightly different then yours but I think Monaco standardized.  The large Red tube is for the brake pedal, the small blue is for air horn, the green is sprning relay, the silver is to rear tank, and next to it is a blue which is the emergency brake.    I looked in the files section and I did not find it but it might be in a folder that I didn't check, so I attached a copy of what I had.  Not sure where I got it but it is pretty darn close to my air system and most of the parts are the same.  Here's a post I did when I worked on mine. 

First thing I did was make a set of 6 ramps so I could completely drain the air system and not have work under the rig relying on the jacks. 

Based on the color coding I "THINK" the valve you are trying to source is a Pressure Protection Valve but it does not look like the ones I replace.  I replaced all my PPV's in 2021 along with some other components on the air system.  Each one had information stamped on it, enough to be able to order replacement, some of them were hard to read until I took the part off and cleaned it. 

Best advice I can give you it to remove it and take it to a larger truck repair shop, 

AIR SYSTEM Dynasty and Windsor.pdf

[bestins]

yes, it is the front air tank. In the last pic it is the valve to the left-with 2 lines coming out of it-a dirty blue one comes in vertically from the top, and black one vertically from bottom. So it is a pressure protection valve?  Would I look for one at a big truck repair center, are these made to handle a specific air pressure?   I couldn't find a name on it but there was a number 5007(I think)on it.

[96 EVO]

I would think a truck repair center would be able to cross reference the number to a valve they have in stock.

65psi is the most common.

[Bill C]

3 hours ago, jacwjames said:

Based on the picture this must be your front tank.  Each hose/tube is color coded to tell what it is for.  I have a diagram for the air systems on Dynasty and Windsor, it is slightly different then yours but I think Monaco standardized.  The large Red tube is for the brake pedal, the small blue is for air horn, the green is sprning relay, the silver is to rear tank, and next to it is a blue which is the emergency brake.    I looked in the files section and I did not find it but it might be in a folder that I didn't check, so I attached a copy of what I had.  Not sure where I got it but it is pretty darn close to my air system and most of the parts are the same.  Here's a post I did when I worked on mine. 

First thing I did was make a set of 6 ramps so I could completely drain the air system and not have work under the rig relying on the jacks. 

Based on the color coding I "THINK" the valve you are trying to source is a Pressure Protection Valve but it does not look like the ones I replace.  I replaced all my PPV's in 2021 along with some other components on the air system.  Each one had information stamped on it, enough to be able to order replacement, some of them were hard to read until I took the part off and cleaned it. 

Best advice I can give you it to remove it and take it to a larger truck repair shop, 

AIR SYSTEM Dynasty and Windsor.pdf 1007.51 kB · 13 downloads

Thanks for sharing this Air System doc Jim, good info.

Bill

[bobdinsmore]

For replacing two leaky PPV's I had no luck on releasing the quick disconnects with the "plastic ring removal tool" so I started looking into the plier types. Is there a specific brand or angle or size that any of you recommend for the PPV's?

Edited April 27, 2023 by bobdinsmore

[jacwjames]

On 4/27/2023 at 6:51 PM, bobdinsmore said:

For replacing two leaky PPV's I had no luck on releasing the quick disconnects with the "plastic ring removal tool" so I started looking into the plier types. Is there a specific brand or angle or size that any of you recommend for the PPV's?

I live near a larger city and knew from my previous work there were distributors that sell this type of "stuff".  The one I used was in Knoxville called Royal Brass.  I decided to go ahead and replace the fittings so just took the old ones down there and they matched. 

One of the Push To Connect fitting on the rear tank would not seal, the hose was coming in at too much of an angle.  I could have added some hose but instead just got a compression type fitting.  This is the type with a ferrule and nut.  Put the nut over the tube, then the ferrule push it into the fitting and tighten the nut.  This is the best type of fitting but costs more and takes longer to install. 

FWIW, after looking at how vulnerable all the hosing and fittings are I decided t make an emergency repair kit.  I kept all the old fittings, bought a selection of unions, and bought some sections of the hosing.  Put it all in a bucket, along with other stuff, and carry in the basement.  Not much weight but good insurance. 

On 1/23/2023 at 3:00 PM, bestins said:

yes, it is the front air tank. In the last pic it is the valve to the left-with 2 lines coming out of it-a dirty blue one comes in vertically from the top, and black one vertically from bottom. So it is a pressure protection valve?  Would I look for one at a big truck repair center, are these made to handle a specific air pressure?   I couldn't find a name on it but there was a number 5007(I think)on it.

I went back and look, not sure but the part you are looking for may be a one way check valve, I did replace on on my front tank, this is what I ordered.

Haldex N-13526-AG 3/8" Check Valve 1-Way Midland N13526AG KN23010

[Gweedo]

First I want to say you guys are the BOMB.  I've had my rig for 7-years, always went onto IRV2 for info (n still do) until I came across this site.    IRV2 is a great resource but I am impressed with the wealth of instant knowledge on Monacoers! 

So since you are on the air tank subject I have a question please., or am I suppose to start a new thread.   Reading through the threads I see you empty your air tanks of water, I have never done this.   I was under the rig doing a lube yesterday and I didn't see what appeared to be a drain valve on the air tanks.  In looking at the pics above I don't see one unless it's the fitting with a line attached?  or do I need better glasses.

Thanks

[96 EVO]

5 minutes ago, Gweedo said:

First I want to say you guys are the BOMB.  I've had my rig for 7-years, always went onto IRV2 for info (n still do) until I came across this site.    IRV2 is a great resource but I am impressed with the wealth of instant knowledge on Monacoers! 

So since you are on the air tank subject I have a question please., or am I suppose to start a new thread.   Reading through the threads I see you empty your air tanks of water, I have never done this.   I was under the rig doing a lube yesterday and I didn't see what appeared to be a drain valve on the air tanks.  In looking at the pics above I don't see one unless it's the fitting with a line attached?  or do I need better glasses.

Thanks

Not sure about '07 models, but I have a manifold with all 3 of the tank drains in the gen compartment, drivers side.

All of your air tanks likely have air lines coming from the bottom of each tank , going to remote drain valves.

[Gweedo]

I'll look thanks

[96 EVO]

7years..... I wish you luck!

Believe the owners manual recommends monthly. If I'm on a long trip, I'll drain mine every 3 or 4 days of travel!

[Gweedo]

I opened the front air drain, zero moisture came out.  tank is empty but  now i have a no start, dash says low air.  do I manually put air in or?

 

 

should i have had the rig running?  

 

Looks like i can add air from the front air supple fitting.  I'll go try that

[96 EVO]

Empty air tanks should have no affect on your engine starting!

[Tom Cherry]

7 minutes ago, Gweedo said:

I opened the front air drain, zero moisture came out.  tank is empty but  now i have a no start, dash says low air.  do I manually put air in or?

 

 

should i have had the rig running?  

 

Looks like i can add air from the front air supple fitting.  I'll go try that

Do not add air.  Your compressor will have moisture.b

read your manual.  As long as the parking brake is engaged, you should be able to start the engine.  You are supposed to air up the system. Then turn off the engine.  Drain the two main tanks.  One of the three air fittings if for the tow truck driver to use to release the rear brakes so it can be towed if you have no air and the engine will not start.

your manual spells this out.  Are you SURE you have the chassis battery switch on?  Batteries charged?  Do you have a remote start switch (read the manual).  I drain my air at least every year.  There is NO INTERLOCK OR ENGINE KILL due to low air. Your rear brakes will not release.

DRAINING the air will not prevent starting,. You have another issue or inadvertently did something the the engine electrical system.

[Gweedo]

So I emptied both tanks and zero moisture.  The dash said low air.  The no start was fixed after I put manually put air in the tanks.  so its good

I only put in about 30 lbs, then the engine started and the compressor filled the tanks like normal. 

 

you are right it says not to do that, crap, i'll run it and make sure nothing went wrong.  I thought maybe it was a safety because of low air.  

I am wondering if because we live in the arizona heat I don't get moisture.  

In my manual it says the air system can be charged from an external source.  so I think i'm okay.  I'll have the wife test drive it..LOL

[96 EVO]

15 minutes ago, Gweedo said:

  The no start was fixed after I put manually put air in the tanks.  so its good

I only put in about 30 lbs, then the engine started and the compressor filled the tanks like normal. 

 

 

 

That doesn't make sense 🤔!

I've probably started my engine 50 times with 0 air in any of the 3 tanks! The 'Low Air' warning light and chime is normal!

Surprised this is the first time you have seen it.

Edited April 30, 2023 by 96 EVO

[Tom Cherry]

3 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

That doesn't make sense 🤔!

I've probably started my engine 50 times with 0 air in any of the 3 tanks! The 'Low Air' warning light and chime is normal!

Surprised this is the first time you have seen it.

Double DITTO.  @Gweedo…read your manual or down load it (Google Holiday Rambler Motor Home Manuals and select yours).  Start reading on page 188.  The instructions specifically say drain all three fittings.  Leave open for 5 minutes for zero pressure.  Close valves.  Restart engine….check for leaks on valves.

THIS DOES NOT COMPUTE…..

[Gweedo]

I have the manual and I have read that section.   I opened all the valves, no moisture.  as stated it would not start when one tank was empty until I added air.  same thing on the rear tank.  I am able to add air per the manual.  You guys know more than I, but all I know is it started once I manually charged the system.  

the chime is normal, but I don't recall being completely out of air

 

[96 EVO]

Yeah, I've got no answer to that!

There should be no link between the two!

[Tom Cherry]

10 minutes ago, Gweedo said:

I have the manual and I have read that section.   I opened all the valves, no moisture.  as stated it would not start when one tank was empty until I added air.  same thing on the rear tank.  I am able to add air per the manual.  You guys know more than I, but all I know is it started once I manually charged the system.  

the chime is normal, but I don't recall being completely out of air

 

I, and Ben, and probably others can only give you our experience.  And if you read the manual, it says the same thing.  I don’t know if you picked up the subtleties of “adding air”.  All home compressor are notoriously “wet” in that their air is laden with moisture.  Commercial shops and the “REAL” tow trucks have compressors with an AIR DRYER on them.  Thus, when the tow truck “adds” air to release the brakes (65+ PSI), they put in DRY AIR.  Your on board compressor has a Wabco Dessicnat air dryer.  Read up on it.  It has a disposable filter that needs to be changed every 3 - 5 years.  You can NOT change s filter when you have 30 PSI in the system.  So….you can’t service the dryer to keep the air dry.  Bottom line, if the MH’s starting circuit is Monaco OEM, then zero air or 125 PSI….the “engine starting circuit” has NO PRESSURE sensor,  the Chime rings when the front and rear air tanks get below 60 or so PSI….as you will not have BRAKES.

It you add air or pump up a system with home compressor air, you run the risk of getting water directly into the braking system and that is costly to repair and could also give you braking problems.

SO, unless some well meaning or perhaps “not technically competent” individual has added a pressure switch to the ignition system, then you need to get that removed.  It is illogical and can be unsafe.  What if you could not start your generator to run a compressor?  You can NOT drive.  Read the manual again.

Since you are in AZ, you probably didn’t put in any wet air.  Drive the Motor Home.  Bring it back to your home or storage and then drain all three  tanks per the Manual.  Still NO START…I would take it to an authorized Cummins shop or a good, reputable truck shop.  You need to have your manual or a copy of the prints.  There is NO WHERE in the starting circuit that has a device or gets a signal for air pressure.  Have it properly repaired.

I would suggest that you purchase a 12 VDC a compressor (like for tires) and then fashion or construct a hose that has a tubeless tire valve and a QD fitting….so you can use it to inflate the system.  It will take a while if you had to put 30 psi….a LONG WHILE.

No one, I think, can assist you here as your ignition system needs to be compared to the prints and find where something was added…..which is dangerous.  

Anything that I or others, without pictures and such, would be a guess.  Like….you had a bad sensor (there are two sensors….one for front and one for back).  If someone decided to somehow connect or did not understand how to install the correct switch and got to “fooling around”….but ended up connecting them to the ignition….  And we have had folks do things unknowingly and turn a $100 tech labor job into a much….MUCH higher repair….to first figure out WHAT was done wrong…..and then, unfortunately, replace a component that was destroyed by the error.  

Run your test….if it operates that way….I know I can’t help you….maybe others can….but this situation is beyond belief….