Replacing Whirlpool house refrigerator with 1210 Norcold

[Stephen Denning]

Looking to replace electric refrigerator with a 1210 Norcold.   Searching for a good used unit.  Is this a good idea?

[Dr4Film]

It is up to each owner as to what they prefer for refrigeration. I chose to go from the NotSoCold to a residential Samsung. In 12+ years of using one I will never go back.

[Seaplane]

I replaced my Dometic with a Samsung RF18 and have had no issues. Very low amp draw. Lots of write up on the subject. Check them out. Hope this helps

[Gary M]

Went to Samsung RF18 five years ago. No issues.

[CorinthWest]

In the unlikely event you want to stay with a NotSoCold, I have a complete 1200LRIM in working condition, WITH manuals - FREE to the first person who shows up with a truck (yes, I am still trying to get this off my porch - LOL).

Edited April 5, 2023 by CorinthWest

[hex_nut]

I do NOT understand why you would go back to an absorption type refrigerator.  I have had a dozen or so absorption refrigerators in my RVs over the last 50 years.  Five years ago I dumped the last failed absorption refrigerator and replaced it with a Samsung RF18.  I will NEVER willing go back to an absorption refrigerator.  Can you please explain your reasoning in wanting to do so?

Respectfully, Richard.

[birdshill123]

You must have a special reason to not want a house fridge. A backwards change.

[Guest Ray Davis]

2 hours ago, CorinthWest said:

In the unlikely event you want to stay with a NotSoCold, I have a complete 1200LRIM in working condition, WITH manuals - FREE to the first person who shows up with a truck (yes, I am still trying to get this off my porch - LOL).

I sold mine for $500 on Craigslist.   Some things you can't give away but you can sell.  LOL    Free sounds too good to be true.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Ray Davis

[CorinthWest]

I just can't bring myself to take it to the scrapyard because it still looks and works fine.  -smiles-

[Guest Ray Davis]

38 minutes ago, CorinthWest said:

I just can't bring myself to take it to the scrapyard because it still looks and works fine.  -smiles-

I hear you, and as long as I don't misrepresent it I don't see anything wrong with selling it.   The buyer is going to buy one somewhere.  Some buyers are dealers or sellers that need to get a coach sellable without spending a couple of grand on a new refrigerator.

Edited April 5, 2023 by Ray Davis

[Tom Cherry]

To an informed future purchaser, a Norcold will lower the value by at least $2,000 - $3,000…or the cost of an immediate replacement.  The Norcold is well known as a fire  and personal safety hazard….  .Sort of painting a “conservative style” vehicle hot pink….and then wondering why no one wants it and why the trade in is several thousand below market…

BUT to each his own….

[waterskier_1]

Why, specifically, are you looking to do this.  I doubt it is a good idea, but need more info to advise you.  I currently have a Norcold 1200 (with Amish propane conversion so not "fire prone"), but when this quits, I'll likely go with a residential refer.  I wouldn't have wanted a residential refer when I got this, because I do a lot of dry camping.  But, now with the Lithium batteries becoming more affordable, and having 1400 Watts solar, I wouldn't need to run the generator any more than I would now - which is basically for kitchen appliances - I'm spoiled.  I still use the propane cooktop, but also like the convivence of my coffee maker, and air fryer.  And I wouldn't run the micro/convection on convection for 30 minutes to 2 hours to cook in the "oven" on batteries.  So, I end up firing up the generator at least once a day, sometimes twice, depending on what I'm cooking.   That is the only reason I fire it up, since if I don't use those kitchen electric appliances, I don't need to run the generator - unless there are several cloudy days in a row.  The new residential refrigerators have come a long way.  Many have inverter compressors, which are easy on electric and efficient.  The insulation in a residential refer is better than the Norcold, some by a lot.  Those two improvement in residential refers, along with improvement in Lithium batteries, make choosing a propane refer a difficult choice.  Of course, if you can't run a generator and don't have much solar, then you have an argument for propane.  I personally would never consider the compressor retrofits for the Norcold (Amish or otherwise) simply because you can just as efficient, with more insulation, residential refrigerator for about the same amount of money, depending on how much cabinetry need to be modified, and how much you may have to pay for that to be done.

  -Rick N.

[jacwjames]

You must have one heck of a parasitic draw!!!  I only have 4 batteries, but do have 325 watt of solar.  When I boon dock I'll run my generator for ~1=1.5 hours before going to bed bringing my batteries up to ~90%.  In the AM I'll still have +75% charge.  If it is a sunny day my batteries may be 100% by dark and I won't run generator.  

I have a Samsung RF18 which I installed in 2019 after my Norcold crapped out.  Don't miss the Norcold at all, I had to keep remote temp sensors in freezer and fridge, if fridge temps started to dip we'd move ice blocks to fridge which was a futile battle, over the years we threw away $$$$ in food. 

One thing I would suggest is consider installing a separate smaller inverter just for the fridge, this might save you amp hours.   I actually installed one to give me an options after having trouble with my RV2012 inverter on a trip.  Haven't found a need to use it yet but nice to have the option. 

I'd also suggest looking at installing some sort of battery monitor  I never could really trust my display so looking at options I installed a Victron BMV-712 monitor.  It is very accurate telling me the battery charge level but also amps being consumed. 

[waterskier_1]

56 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

You must have one heck of a parasitic draw!!!  I only have 4 batteries, but do have 325 watt of solar.  When I boon dock I'll run my generator for ~1=1.5 hours before going to bed bringing my batteries up to ~90%.  In the AM I'll still have +75% charge.  If it is a sunny day my batteries may be 100% by dark and I won't run generator.  

I have a Samsung RF18 which I installed in 2019 after my Norcold crapped out.  Don't miss the Norcold at all, I had to keep remote temp sensors in freezer and fridge, if fridge temps started to dip we'd move ice blocks to fridge which was a futile battle, over the years we threw away $$$$ in food. 

One thing I would suggest is consider installing a separate smaller inverter just for the fridge, this might save you amp hours.   I actually installed one to give me an options after having trouble with my RV2012 inverter on a trip.  Haven't found a need to use it yet but nice to have the option. 

I'd also suggest looking at installing some sort of battery monitor  I never could really trust my display so looking at options I installed a Victron BMV-712 monitor.  It is very accurate telling me the battery charge level but also amps being consumed. 

If this response is directed to me, the Yes and No.  I do have about 18 - 25 Amps draw, depending on if the Aquahot is running and how many zones, but it not "parasitic" in the sense that it's unknown or unwanted.  I know what is drawing the current.  Over 13 Amps just for A/V equipment.  Another 3-5 Amps for Hot Spot, Router, Cell Booster, and computer (in Sleep) mode.  That is in addition to the Inverter, Refer Control Panel,  water pump, lights (all LED),  phone and tablet chargers, clocks, and a misc of other items.  Sure I could eliminate a lot of those, but I'm in a high end coach, not trying to tent camp.  

  -Rick N.

[cbr046]

Some people don't hop from power outlet to power outlet.  Hence, absorption.

- bob

 

[Dr4Film]

24 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

Some people don't hop from power outlet to power outlet.  Hence, absorption.

When I leave Florida heading for New Hampshire, I unplug the coach from the 50-amp hookup at our winter home. The coach is never plugged into shore power again for the next five days of travel to Totem Pole Park in Freedom New Hampshire. Once there then we are on 50-amp shore power until after Columbus Day when we return to our Florida home once again.

Never want to deal with all of the problems I had for years with the NotSoCold ever again. Using the Samsung residential is a cake walk giving us lots of more useful capacity with absolutely NO problems.

When I was looking at 2006 Dynasty's specifically the Countess III floorplan, if the coach had the NotSoCold still installed I politely told the seller that I was no longer interested in his coach and I walked away.

Fortunately, I found exactly what I was looking for and then some in Salt Lake City. Haven't been disappointed for one nanosecond except for the very poor "certified" NRVIA inspector that I had hired who was clueless to do a thorough inspection. That was a total waste of money. Should have done it myself!

[birdshill123]

Probably 50 % of the RV's sold today have residential fridges. This includes pull trailers and 5th wheels. I am surprised that Dometic and Norcold don't build electric fridges that fit in the space of their popular propane models.

Edited April 6, 2023 by birdshill123

[CAT Stephen]

10 hours ago, Stephen Denning said:

Looking to replace electric refrigerator with a 1210 Norcold.   Searching for a good used unit.  Is this a good idea?

Stephen,

 

It depends upon your use case.  I provided all the options that you may choose from depending upon three use cases. Your use case has a substantial impact on which option will fit best for you:

- Use Case 1: If you are on the grid nearly full time, you have a generator to keep your battery bank charged when you are off grid, and do not have significant solar power:

* Option 1A: Stay with your residential refrigerator 

• In your specific use case, staying with your existing residential reefer will maintain the maximum resale value for your RV, provided that your reefer is in good condition. 
• This option requires that your inverter is on full time since residential refrigerators run on 120VAC.  Although most residential refrigerators run on 75-200 watts, the issue is that most inverters draw a significant amount of additional energy (typically 45-100 watts) which put a substantial additional load on your battery bank.  

* Option 1B: Replace your residential refrigerator with an ultra high efficiency 12V RV refrigerator 

• 12V compressor RV style refrigerators have the interior storage, appearance, reliability, and features of a residential refrigerator, but will use less than half the watt-hours (~25%-30%) of your current residential refrigerator. These 12V RV refrigerators include standard mounting hardware so that you don't need to do a custom installation. The only catch is that they may or may not fit your existing opening, so measure carefully:
  • https://www.recpro.com/rv-12v-refrigerator/
  • This option will also maintain and even enhance the maximum resale value for your RV

- Use Case #2: If you have significant solar power (i.e. more than 300 watts) and have more than 200 amp hours of usable battery capacity (this is 200 amp hours of lithium or 400 amp hours of Lead Acid), and your solar power is available while your RV is stored , or you have access to 120VAC shore power at your RV storage facility, then stay with your residential refrigerator:

• Please refer to options for use case #1

- Use Case #3: If you are not on the grid or rarely on the grid, do not have significant solar power, and don't have a generator or you don't want to use your generator, then proceed to buy a used Norcold or Dometic absorption refrigerator, but make the following changes for fire protection and your personal safety:

• Option 3A: Buy a new helium based absorption style cooling unit for your existing refrigerator from JC Refrigeration which will reduce cooling unit fire risk to zero.
  • Helium is an absolutely "safe" absorption cooling unit refrigerant making a refrigerator fire impossible:
    • https://jc-refrigeration.com/product-category/norcold-gas-electric-cooling-units/
      • Helium cooling units cost more than ammonia cooling units and are not as efficient as ammonia cooling units
• Option 3B: Buy a new ammonia based absorption style cooling unit for your existing refrigerator from JC Refrigeration.
  • Ammonia is a flammable absorption cooling unit refrigerant, but The JC Refrigeration units have much thicker tubing than the OEM units and are MUCH safer than OEM cooling units and are MUCH more efficient than OEM cooling units at keeping your refrigerator and freezer temperatures down in the acceptable food storage temperature range.     
• For Either Option 3A or Option 3B:
  • Purchase the ARP Absorption Boiler monitor (Called the Fridge Defend) from https://www.arprv.com to eliminate the potential of cooling unit damage.
    • The ARP Fridge Defend will substantially increase the lifespan of your expensive absorption cooling unit by protecting against boiler overheating conditions which lead to internal corrosion and failure of the cooling unit.  
      • https://www.arprv.com/purchase.php
        • Purchase Option #1 from ARP because JC refrigeration controls their fans with a thermostat to maintain your warranty
  • If you are within a reasonable driving distance from JC Refrigeration in northern Indiana, have JC Refrigeration install the new absorption based cooling unit with the ARP Fridge Defend boiler monitor. 

Above all things, your personal safety comes first.  So, if you fit into use case #3 above, be advised:

• In all cases, NEVER BUY the new Norcold or new Dometic OEM new gas absorption refrigerators or their associated OEM replacement cooling units:
  • The OEM cooling unit performance is very poor resulting in the common nicknames "NotCold" "NeverCold" and NotSoCold"
  • An OEM cooling unit will reduce the maximum resale value for your RV by ~$2K typically due to the notorious poor reliability, low quality, and fire danger of the Norcold and Dometic OEM cooling units. 
    • They have inherent high risk of fire through corrosion resulting from boiler overheating which eventually results in flammable ammonia being discharged and subsequently ignited by the propane flame or the electric induction heater coil. 
      • Although both Norcold and Dometic have partially addressed their fire issue via safety cutoff safety switches for runaway boiler overheating situations, their cutoff switches don't turn off the boilers until a much higher temperature is reached versus the ARP Control which will result in cooling unit corrosion and subsequent failure after a boiler overheat event within ~one to three years. 
        • The JC Refrigeration units have much thicker tubing than the OEM units and are MUCH more efficient at keeping your refrigerator and freezer temperatures down in the safe range.  
  •   The #1 insurance claim in the RV insurance industry is refrigerator fires. 
    • NEVER run an any ammonia based cooling unit without an ARP Fridge Defend and / or a fire suppression system attached to the cooling unit.  If you are depending on the Norcold and Dometic recall kits alone (i.e. thermal runaway switches) then you are at risk for an ammonia fire when the thin OEM cooling unit tubing corrodes and dumps flammable ammonia on your open propane flame or electric heaters. 
    • I have personally been there and done that with my original Norcold OEM cooling unit when it failed and was very fortunate that I was present when my unit started smoking due to a boiler failure and was able to immediately shutdown my refrigerator to avoid a disaster.

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by CAT Stephen

[Ivylog]

Well this is a first! Yes, we own energy hogs that use 15 to 20 amps DC when dry camping. A residential is 8 of those amps, but only 40% of the time. You can decrease 10 amps by turning off the bottom GFI in the inverter panel when you go to bed… kills all the AV stuff.

 The best $180 you can spend is on an additional 100 amp charger to decrease your generator run time. Power it off the block heater outlet.

Have you thought about the 2 vent holes you’ll have to cut in your slide to vent a 1210? Even a new one is still a fire hazard. I put way too many $$ into keeping a 1200 going before wising up.

[Guest Al redcay]

I just went from norcold to residential a would not go back. 

[pulsarjab]

I rode a golf cart through a RV salvage yard. I notice a long line of motor homes that had fires. I asked my driver why so many. he said, 75 percent of those fires were in the refrigerator area. That cured me, after replacing many parts on the Norcold over the years, and having many sleepless nights worrying about a fire. My Whirlpool works great and draws about 55 watts.

[Guest Al redcay]

My new one says it draws 3.5 watts 

[hex_nut]

We have not had any response from the OP (Stephen).  Makes me wonder if he just "poked the hornets nest" to see what kind of response he would get.

Richard

[Guest Ray Davis]

27 minutes ago, hex_nut said:

We have not had any response from the OP (Stephen).  Makes me wonder if he just "poked the hornets nest" to see what kind of response he would get.

Richard

His 1st and only post, however, he has a phone number.   He wanted to buy a used one, maybe he found one and bought it.

[Ivylog]

Or he didn’t want to hear negative comments on doing this plus the decrease in the value of his rig and having to cut holes in it for the vents.

I have one in northern GA with a Amish cooling unit and ARP controller collecting dust.