Engine Monitoring - Aladdin, ScanGaugeD, BlueFire, & VMSpec

[Rick A]

I’m wondering what management system my 2005 Diplomat has on it because I don’t have the Aladdin coach system or Bluefire? Should I get a Bluefire or some other diagnostic tool to monitor the health of my rig? 

[redstickbill]

Rick,

I don't know that your Diplomat has anything. I use the VMSpc and am pleased with it. I have heard lots of good things about the BlueFire system.

Check the files section of our site.

Bill B 07 Dynasty (former Diplomat and Endeavor)

[waterskier_1]

Aladdin, Bluefire, Scan Gauge, and others are NOT Management Systems.  They are only Monitoring Systems.  The Management it performed by the ECU (Engine Control Unit), the TCU (Transmission Control Unit) and others.  You do not NEED any of the Monitoring Systems for your coach to operate properly.  If you did, Monaco would have included them.  But the Monitoring Systems do help you see what is going on, and present a lot of information that some find useful, to include Speedometer, Tach, voltage, coolant temp, trans temp, turbo boost, and a host of others.  Most also provide a Diagnostic Tool, which can read error codes (similar to what an OBDII scanner does on a gasoline engine) and can even reset (clear) some of the codes.  

  -Rick N.

[96 EVO]

My Aladdin Jr system has no diagnostic capabilities! Just displays engine / trans informaion.

I installed a Scan Gauge D. If I were to do it again I'd look into the Bluefire system. The Scan Gauge is hard to read while travelling.

[Scotty Hutto]

The Aladdin Jr (limited monitoring) was an option on the 2006 Diplomat; I don't see it listed as an option on the 2005 Dip brochure.  You may not have any engine/transmission monitoring system.

ScanGauge D is an option.  See @96 EVO's comments. Several friends have them and like their simplicity and ability to display codes.

Bluefire is an option, but be aware the engine diagnostic port on your 2005 Dip is a J1708 and will have limited information available.  I have an Aladdin Jr AND a Bluefire.  I love the configurability of the Bluefire  It's a little work, but you can set it up to monitor what you want, and can customize how it's displayed.  Note that you will need some type devices (iPad or Android tablet) to view the Bluefire info on.

Silverleaf VMSpec is the most complete (and expensive) system, but has the most functionality, to my understanding...   It requires a Windows tablet or laptop to display.  Maybe @redstickbill could post some photos or tell us a little more about his system. 😉

Just FYI... The Intellitec Energy Management System (EMS) was an option on the 2005 Dip.  You most likely have that to manage your shore power.

[allphase8]

I use Silverleaf VSMPC and monitor on a laptop along with my Route Planed Nav system.

 

[Gary Cole]

13 minutes ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Bluefire is an option, but be aware the engine diagnostic port on your 2005 Dip is a J1708

True, very frustrating. The diagnostic port at the engine is J1939. Whose idea was that? The J1708 is only 9600 baud. Too slow for practical monitoring.  I'm looking at the possibility of teeing  the J1939 can bus cable at the Allison transmission module in the front run bay. I'm thinking the transmission module has the required internal  terminating resistor. Plug in tapping tees are available  or could be made.  Any opinions from those who know  more about this and if this would work?

[Dr4Film]

I have used the SilverLeaf VMSpc system since 2010. Had it on my Windsor for 12 years then transferred it to my Dynasty.

I won't move the coach without it up and running.

[Scotty Hutto]

37 minutes ago, Gary Cole said:

True, very frustrating. The diagnostic port at the engine is J1939. Whose idea was that? The J1708 is only 9600 baud. Too slow for practical monitoring.  I'm looking at the possibility of teeing  the J1939 can bus cable at the Allison transmission module in the front run bay. I'm thinking the transmission module has the required internal  terminating resistor. Plug in tapping tees are available  or could be made.  Any opinions from those who know  more about this and if this would work?

Use the Aladdin J1929 bus cable in the side console instead of the transmission cable. Less risk! I used a "Y" connector on the Aladdin feed, replaced my J1708 with a J1939 plug, and all works great! I *think* I sent you a PM with info on the Y connector.

PS - I still need to write that up...

[Rick A]

16 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

I have used the SilverLeaf VMSpc system since 2010. Had it on my Windsor for 12 years then transferred it to my Dynasty.

I won't move the coach without it up and running.

I see their website says this is no longer an option for a laptop? 

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Rick A
Wrong pic.

[CAT Stephen]

2 hours ago, Rick A said:

I’m wondering what management system my 2005 Diplomat has on it because I don’t have the Aladdin coach system or Bluefire? Should I get a Bluefire or some other diagnostic tool to monitor the health of my rig? 

Rick,

 

I own the Bluefire and love it!  What are your monitoring goals and monitoring scope so that I can recommend the right solution for you?

[Rick A]

I see the laptop version has been discontinued. I’m just need to get a better overview of my rig’s performances. Without breaking the bank! Thanks for your help! 

[Dr4Film]

@Rick A        I'd be happy to send you the application which I use on my mini-PC.

All you would need is the converter box and proper pin-cable that goes into your ECM port.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Dr4Film

[Rick A]

34 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

@Rick A        I'd be happy to send you the application which I use on my mini-PC.

All you would need is the converter box and proper pin-cable that goes into your ECM port.

You are a mighty fine fellow Sir. Could you email it to me at Rick@revictoria.com. When I get it I’ll probably be asking some questions. I’m very thankful for all the advice I’ve been given and I’m going to try stuff out to see what works best for me. Thanks Richard much appreciated. 

[Gary Cole]

2 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Use the Aladdin J1929 bus cable in the side console instead of the transmission cable.

Scotty my 2005 Diplomat does not have a tap for the Aladdin. The end of line J1929 from the engine EMC plugs into a short pigtail at the Allison control module. That is why I'm thinking the end of line resistor must be in the Allison module.  So that is why I was thinking of just hard wiring a tap and 9 pin port to minimize the number of connections, or using pre made as you did ahead of the Allison module. The Bluefire system would not need the J1708 bus so I would only use 3 wires of the 9 pins on the port and 12v -,+

Edited July 10, 2023 by Gary Cole

[jacwjames]

Well, I was going to highly suggest Silverleaf VMSpc but I guess that it's a mute point unless you can find a used one.  There is a used one on Ebay, says it's for Cat but you configure it to whatever engine you have.

I am like Richard, my rig doesn't move until the display shows all is good.  I had a more elaborate display on my laptop but I now use a Microsoft Go2 tablet, it has a touch screen with no small finger pad and it makes it harder to change the display, I use a portable mouse to make it manageable but still not as easy as my old laptops. I could take the time to make the same display but I have the information I am most interested in displaying.  Also will show fault codes which IMHO is a must.

I do have mine setup with alarms for low volts and oil pressure and high engine/transmission temps.

I also setup data logging so I can go back and look for anything out of the ordinary. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by jacwjames

[Scotty Hutto]

@Gary Cole

Just to be clear….

The BlueFire will work with the J1708 bus, and Bluefire sells a J1939 to J1708 adapter.  It *may* not be able to access as much data, and is certainly a slower update speed. 

I added the J1708 and J1939 so I could read my ECM, Allison transmission, and Bendix brake system from the front of the coach. It also increases the update rate for the BlueFire substantially. 

[Georgia Mike]

This was my setup using a windows tablet in my previous Fleetwood Discovery. You can really setup and customize it with pictures and stuff. I Really liked it but I an considering getting the BlueFire because of one major difference and that is the Blue Fire is wireless and the the Silver leaf is not. I hate wires running all over my dash and I also like the fact you can use an iPad with the Blue Fire and only windows with Silver leaf.    Again I like the Silverleaf but the fact it’s hard wired and only windows based makes me lean towards BlueFire. I think they both provide plenty of data and customization just depends on what your looking for. And yes that says 10-11 mpg on my old Discovery I sure miss that 5.9

[Yoaks5]

23 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Use the Aladdin J1929 bus cable in the side console instead of the transmission cable. Less risk! I used a "Y" connector on the Aladdin feed, replaced my J1708 with a J1939 plug, and all works great! I *think* I sent you a PM with info on the Y connector.

PS - I still need to write that up...

Hey Scotty... is the picture below what your alladin looks like? I don't think i have a round j1929  plug in the front of my coach. I'm wondering if I can just purchase a j1929 plug and splice it into the engine buss wiring? Is that what you did? 

I've been using a bluefire for a couple of years. The biggest issue is it disconnects about every 20-30 minutes and I have to close the program and open it back up again. This is a known problem with the BlueFire system and is very annoying. They are aware of it and his advice was to go to irv2 and read a very long thread. It was no help. I run mine on an i pad and it is only about 14 inches from the adapter I still lose connection frequently. I did discover that if I hold the I pad right against the adapter I get better connection (you can see the connection strength the the app). I was think about getting a longer j1708 cord but if I can tie into the alladin j1929 wiring that would be great! 

[Gary Cole]

4 hours ago, Yoaks5 said:

disconnects about every 20-30 minutes

I'm wondering what class the Bluefire dongle is? Bluetooth range is from something short of a county mile to 1.5 ft  depending on class. Can you pair with the Bluefire dongle with your phone? If so do you experience the same disconnection problem? If not then I wonder if the software isn't disconnecting because it doesn't like the  bandwidth?

Bluefire is clearly using a generic Bluetooth $3  chip set and not an in house design. So the drop out problem  is puzzling.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Gary Cole

[Yoaks5]

I'm not sure what the dongle is. Ya I have tons of other items that are Bluetooth and all work fine and have a good range. 

Yes i also tried my phone. During my troubleshooting of this issue I tried installing one gauge only (RPMs) on my phone (it's an android) and used that on a 2 hour trip with the same result. It dropped the Bluetooth connection several times. 

[Gary Cole]

Kevin with your phone if you go into settings/connected devices/+ pair new device you should be able to see the Bluefire bluetooth device  ID and pair with it one level below the Bluefire software. Your phone will then stay connected until you move out of range. I would be surprised if it is less than 20-30 ft. Does not see 1708 or 1939 protocol at that level.

[Scotty Hutto]

@Yoaks5 Kevin,

I agree with Gary that changing to the J1939 bus won't fix the bluetooth dropout problem.

Here is what I shared with Gary.  I'll take some more pics at the coach over the next week and write up exactly what all I did.  In short I made the connection to the J1939 bus in the console left of the driver (where the transmissions shifter, etc. is located)

Scotty

*****

I bought a splitter off eBay, and a pre-wired plug, then ran the 2-J1939 data wires up the plug.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354323662047?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Gfczo2RxTuS&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=4JE8IY8nRVa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354288615555?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Gfczo2RxTuS&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=4JE8IY8nRVa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I replaced the j1708 plug with a J1939 plug, and used both the J1708 and J1939 data wires.  Here's where I purchased the plug:

http://obd2allinone.com/products/j1939m-t2.asp

I bought the j1939m-t2j "jam nut" connector with 5 pins, and the j1939pins package of 5 extra pins.

(BTW, you need the plug AND pins.  Pro tip: get extra pins.  They're cheap, and if you mess up, you're dead in the water until you get more.)

You will need a good pin crimping tool.  

Here is a picture of the wiring under the console.  At the bottom left you'll see the cable with 3 pin Deutsch (triangular) connectors labeled "ALADDIN" (circled in white).  That is where I put the "Y" adapter.  The other cable goes to the Transmission Control Module (TCM).  Since I had the Aladdin J1939 connector, I felt that was less "risky".  I didn't really want to mess with my transmission.

Here are the J1939 bus pinouts:

...and the J1939 bus pinouts:

I used pins A through G.  Pins H and J are not used.  A & B are self explanatory.  C, D, and E come from the "Y" cable where I tapped off the Aladdin port (pay attention to the orientation - the wires are NOT labeled.)  F & G come from the existing J1708 cable.  

Here is the tool that came with the new port to pull pins from the old port and insert into the new port.  Note that the J1708 pins are larger than the J1939 pins, so the pins are cut off and replaced with the pins that come with the port.  If I was going to do it again, I'd spend a little more and get a nicer Deutsch pin tool.

[Georgia Mike]

I read somewhere that on the BlueFire settings page near the top is a Do Not Lock setting that needs to be checked that keeps it from disconnecting. Might be worth a try.

[Scotty Hutto]

Also, since you are an Android user,you can check these settings:

• Use Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE): Select this to always connect to the Adapter using Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE). This will not be shown for Apple devices as all Apple devices use BLE. For Android and Windows devices this will automatically be selected when connecting to the Adapter but you can speed up the connection time if you have a BLE Adapter and you select this first. This will not be shown if 'Use Bluetooth Classic (2.1)' is checked. You must uncheck 'Use Bluetooth Classic (2.1)' to check this option. Note, a BLE Adapter is an Apple/Android/Windows Adapter and has a square Bluetooth module under the cap (See Adapter Styles above). 
• Use Bluetooth Classic (2.1): Select this to always connect to the Adapter using Bluetooth Classic 2.1. This will not be shown for Apple devices as all Apple devices use Bluetooth Low Energy. For Android and Windows devices this will automatically be selected when connecting to the Adapter but you can speed up the connection time if you have a Bluetooth Classic Adapter and you select this first. This will not be shown if ' Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE)' is checked. You must uncheck ' Bluetooth Low Energy (BLE)' to check this option. Note, a Bluetooth Classic Adapter is an Android/Windows Adapter has a rectangular Bluetooth module under the cap (See Adapter Styles above).