Engine Monitoring - Aladdin, ScanGaugeD, BlueFire, & VMSpec

[Scotty Hutto]

my apologies if your app looks different; I have the iPhone version…
 

I was also looking at these settings and wondering if you’ve tried increasing the “Adapter Connection Timeout” value to a larger number, like 120?

 

In the “Advanced Settings”, there are also settings that could be adjusted to keep the adapter connected. Try increasing the “Adapter Heartbeat Timeout” to a larger number like 120 seconds.  If that doesn’t help, check the “Ignore Heartbeat” as a test to see if that’s what’s causing the disconnection. It says to contact BF Support first, so I’ll simply say “beware” (but I’m the type person who likes to twist the knobs and flip the switches before I ask for help. Your Mileage May Vary…)
 

[Yoaks5]

22 hours ago, Gary Cole said:

Kevin with your phone if you go into settings/connected devices/+ pair new device you should be able to see the Bluefire bluetooth device  ID and pair with it one level below the Bluefire software. Your phone will then stay connected until you move out of range. I would be surprised if it is less than 20-30 ft. Does not see 1708 or 1939 protocol at that level.

Wouldn't you know it I can't get my phone to hook up to the adaptor now. Didn't have much time to mess with it today. I'm more interested in getting he I Pad to stay hooded up. Any way to check this on a I pad?

[Yoaks5]

16 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Here is what I shared with Gary.  I'll take some more pics at the coach over the next week and write up exactly what all I did.  In short I made the connection to the J1939 bus in the console left of the driver (where the transmissions shifter, etc. is located)

Scotty

Scotty...Thanks for the write up, links and pics! Excellent job out of you for coming up with this idea! I'm going to look into doing this as well. Didn't have much time to to mess with it today but I really like the idea of faster and hopefully more data. My original thinking was to just add a longer cord to the adaptor and place the adaptor right next to the iPad. When I do that my signal strength goes from fair to excellent so I'm hoping that will keep it from dropping. Now thinking I'll convert it to the J1939 plug and try to get it closer to the iPad. I'll also check my setting that you mentioned to see if these help. 

Thanks again for the info!

[BRBowers]

I've been trying to find a replacement for the Aladdin also. Mine bit the dust when our Camelot was hit by lightning a few years back. I'd just like something simpler than having a laptop, or a iPad, etc.  The nice thing about the Aladdin was, all you did just press one button and it powers up and does its thing. No log in, no wait for the device to boot up, and then load an app to get things going.

For these reasons I'm using two separate ScanGaugeD's so I can have more than four small items to monitor.  

But have you seen the new ScanGauge III.  https://www.scangauge.com/products/productsscangauge-iii/  

Problem us, so far they only make it for OBDII, cars and trucks, etc.

I contacted them and asked if they were considering this style for Diesel Trucks & Motorhomes. Their answer was not at the present time. I mentioned there's a lot of motorhome owners and I'm sure Truckers that would be very interested. The agent I spoke to said they would pass my suggestion to their marketing and engineering divisions. Maybe if more of us called them it might help. That is, If anyone else is interested.

Just a thought.

[Bill R]

On 7/10/2023 at 11:04 AM, Scotty Hutto said:

I have an Aladdin Jr AND a Bluefire.  I love the configurability of the Bluefire  It's a little work, but you can set it up to monitor what you want, and can customize how it's displayed.  Note that you will need some type devices (iPad or Android tablet) to view the Bluefire info on.

@Scotty Hutto I have the Aladdin Jr as well and am considering adding Bluefire for my 2006 Windsor.  Thank you for the great write up and information.  I have glanced through the App document but didn't see if the BlueFire App displays data as a trend line.  Or does it only display in real time?  I did see where you can download data into an excel sheet which is nice.  Any insight on these capabilities using the Bluefire App?  Thank you.

[Scotty Hutto]

BlueFire does have logging capabilities, and the app gives you a choice of downloading the file or emailing it.  Apparently its a CSV spreadsheet that allows you to manipulate it. I wish I could tell you more, but I haven't used any of those capabilities... yet!  but you've piqued my interest, so logging will be turned on from now on...

[jacwjames]

Not sure to post here about Silverleaf question>>  but here goes

In the past the Silverleaf reported very accurate fuel consumption, usually if it showed I used ~75 gallons I'd put very close to that amount into my tank.

This last month I took a trip and I first noticed a significant difference three different times I filled up.  The first time I pumped +20 more gallons compared to what Silverleaf showed.  The next two time I showed ~20 gallons less.  The last time I actually calculated the difference, the Silverleaf showed 7.2mpg but calculated 8.58 based on miles driven/gallons pumped.  When I filled up I made sure to fill the tank as full as possible.  This was driving from Southern Wisconsin to Knoxville TN, ~712 miles, KY & TN driving was through hilly/mountains terrain.

Not sure what's going one, I did go in and look to make sure I had the correct model engine.

Does anyone have any idea what may be happening.  . 

[Rick A]

Not having much luck with Silverleaf people. Got their download from Richard. Done. Called 4 times, twice promised email solutions and product requirement list. 8 days later, still waiting. Assume what? 

[jacwjames]

58 minutes ago, Rick A said:

Not having much luck with Silverleaf people. Got their download from Richard. Done. Called 4 times, twice promised email solutions and product requirement list. 8 days later, still waiting. Assume what? 

Rick, what were you trying to get from the Silverleaf people?

[TomHull68]

On 7/12/2023 at 1:30 AM, Scotty Hutto said:

@Yoaks5 Kevin,

I agree with Gary that changing to the J1939 bus won't fix the bluetooth dropout problem.

Here is what I shared with Gary.  I'll take some more pics at the coach over the next week and write up exactly what all I did.  In short I made the connection to the J1939 bus in the console left of the driver (where the transmissions shifter, etc. is located)

Scotty

*****

I bought a splitter off eBay, and a pre-wired plug, then ran the 2-J1939 data wires up the plug.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354323662047?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Gfczo2RxTuS&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=4JE8IY8nRVa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.com/itm/354288615555?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Gfczo2RxTuS&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=4JE8IY8nRVa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

I replaced the j1708 plug with a J1939 plug, and used both the J1708 and J1939 data wires.  Here's where I purchased the plug:

http://obd2allinone.com/products/j1939m-t2.asp

I bought the j1939m-t2j "jam nut" connector with 5 pins, and the j1939pins package of 5 extra pins.

(BTW, you need the plug AND pins.  Pro tip: get extra pins.  They're cheap, and if you mess up, you're dead in the water until you get more.)

You will need a good pin crimping tool.  

Here is a picture of the wiring under the console.  At the bottom left you'll see the cable with 3 pin Deutsch (triangular) connectors labeled "ALADDIN" (circled in white).  That is where I put the "Y" adapter.  The other cable goes to the Transmission Control Module (TCM).  Since I had the Aladdin J1939 connector, I felt that was less "risky".  I didn't really want to mess with my transmission.

Here are the J1939 bus pinouts:

...and the J1939 bus pinouts:

I used pins A through G.  Pins H and J are not used.  A & B are self explanatory.  C, D, and E come from the "Y" cable where I tapped off the Aladdin port (pay attention to the orientation - the wires are NOT labeled.)  F & G come from the existing J1708 cable.  

Here is the tool that came with the new port to pull pins from the old port and insert into the new port.  Note that the J1708 pins are larger than the J1939 pins, so the pins are cut off and replaced with the pins that come with the port.  If I was going to do it again, I'd spend a little more and get a nicer Deutsch pin tool.

Mr. Hutto,

I have a 2006 Monaco Diplomat 38PST.

I recently bought the BlueFire adapter to gain access to engine data after having an issue with an intermittent coolant temperature guage.  I'm going to re-do my dash panel and guages with the addition of a Samsung Galaxy Tablet for real time engine monitoring.  I have a six pin port next to my steering column that has active data, a six pin port in the driver side fuse compartment without active data, a nine pin port in the engine bay below the access cover (tied to the dipstick sleeve) that has active data, and a three pin CAN-bus in the mass of wiring shoved into the area beneath the panel to the left of the driver seat.  I have not checked the three pin connector for data because I wouldn't know how to try.

I've been intrigued by several of your posts about the common issues folks have had regarding their data busses, and I would like to know if it is possible to get more data from the bus to show more real time data on screen via the bluefire adapter.  The three pin plug doesn't seem to have a terminating resistor, and I may be chasing a ghost since I do not believe this RV has had any optional monitoring (Aladdin, etc.), and the three pin CAN bus may not even be active.  Can the three pin and the six pin be combined to present a more comprehensive picture of the workings of the machine to be displayed on screen?

Thank you,

Thomas Hull

[Scotty Hutto]

Thomas,

Sorry to be so late replying, but we’ve been driving several hundred miles per day since Friday (started in Atlanta, currently in northeastern Nebraska…)

The short answer is “yes”, they can be combined.  The 6-pin port next to the steering wheel is a J1708 data port. The 3-pin can bus under the driver-side panel is the J1939 data bus. On my coach that connects to the Aladdin Jr., but that system was optional on our coaches (2006 Dip). I used the +12v, ground, and the J1708 data lines from the 6-pin port and the three lines from the CAN bus in my J1939 connector. I now use a BlueFire with an iPad to monitor a variety of parameters.  I do have some duplication between the Aladdin Jr and the BlueFire, but the BlueFire updates much more frequently is the J1939 bus. There is also a lot more data available on the J1939 (CAN) bus that is not displayed by the Aladdin Jr. and can be displayed via the BlueFire.  

Finally, the port in your front run bay is a different designation (J1587 - I think?). It will display data from your Bendix brake controller. On my coach that’s the only place I can get that data. 

[TomHull68]

Scotty,

I believe you described how to combine the two cables into a nine pin in a previous posting; I seem to recall coming across it in my earlier diggings, but can't find it now that I have a little better understanding since seeing the BlueFire in action.  If you have discussed this, I would be appreciative if you could direct me to the description/schematic of the cable combination.  Also, if I decide to stick with the six pin port for awhile, should the three pin connector have a terminating resistor plugged into it?  It doesn't seem to have one.

Hope your travels are fantastic.

 

[Scotty Hutto]

 

[pulsarjab]

I purchased the scan gauge seven years ago. It is simple to install, just plug it in and select monitoring. While it only displays four items, the menu has many items you can monitor. For me, simple is best, being a pilot I need to be monitoring outside and not get too distracted with screen data. For me, simple is best when driving.

[johncvandoren@gmail.com]

I use ScanGauge D on my ‘06 Knight, but cannot find transmission temp gauge.  Someone @ ScanGauge suggested finding another diagnostic port where the trans temp may reside.  Anybody know where that may be?

[Dr4Film]

Frank McElroy stated to me that the 9 pin in the engine compartment carried more information than the 6 pin under the drivers dash area. This would be on my previous 02 Windsor and my current 06 Dynasty.

[olywrestle]

3 hours ago, johncvandoren@gmail.com said:

I use ScanGauge D on my ‘06 Knight, but cannot find transmission temp gauge.  Someone @ ScanGauge suggested finding another diagnostic port where the trans temp may reside.  Anybody know where that may be?

On my Ambassador in the driver's front electrical bay I found a nine pin connector for my BlueFire adapter. I get trans temp out of it. 

 

For those using BlueFire, I was having lots of connectivity issues, and tried everything possible except flip my tablet the opposite direction. Once I did that, I did 3000 miles so far without it dropping. 

[saflyer]

On 7/10/2023 at 10:37 AM, waterskier_1 said:

Aladdin, Bluefire, Scan Gauge, and others are NOT Management Systems.  They are only Monitoring Systems.  The Management it performed by the ECU (Engine Control Unit), the TCU (Transmission Control Unit) and others.  You do not NEED any of the Monitoring Systems for your coach to operate properly.  If you did, Monaco would have included them.  But the Monitoring Systems do help you see what is going on, and present a lot of information that some find useful, to include Speedometer, Tach, voltage, coolant temp, trans temp, turbo boost, and a host of others.  Most also provide a Diagnostic Tool, which can read error codes (similar to what an OBDII scanner does on a gasoline engine) and can even reset (clear) some of the codes.  

  -Rick N.

I purchased the ScanD after my analog coolant gauge read over maximum allowable and the audible chirper sounded every time I climbed a mountain. Repeated trips to Cummins produced no record of overheating. After installing the ScanD it was obvious the analog gauge read noticeably high. All that is to say I believe I do need a device like the ScanD so I can operate the coach properly. These units are far more accurate than analog gauges.

Ed          
‘05 HR Ambassador

[waterskier_1]

2 hours ago, saflyer said:

I purchased the ScanD after my analog coolant gauge read over maximum allowable and the audible chirper sounded every time I climbed a mountain. Repeated trips to Cummins produced no record of overheating. After installing the ScanD it was obvious the analog gauge read noticeably high. All that is to say I believe I do need a device like the ScanD so I can operate the coach properly. These units are far more accurate than analog gauges.

Ed          
‘05 HR Ambassador

My point was that those systems were not "Management" systems.  As you state, YOU can operate the coach - YOU are the Management system.  A ScanD can not "manage", meaning take preventive or corrective action.  It can only present data to something or someone who can take action.  The Engine Control Unit/Module (ECU/M) does have "management" functions, and can display warning and if not heeded, de-rate or completely shutdown the engine, as an example.  ScanD can not do that.  Some may think I'm splitting hairs, but I wanted to ensure readers that these would not "Manage" or Protect their coaches, that is usually left up to the operator, but if he ignores, there are built-in management systems to take over.

Some feel that reading a digital number is more accurate than an analog gauge, but they are only more precise.  The accuracy comes from the sensor, often the same sensor (like water temp or oil pressure) that the analog gauge uses.  

  -Rick N.

 

[saflyer]

6 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

My point was that those systems were not "Management" systems.  As you state, YOU can operate the coach - YOU are the Management system.  A ScanD can not "manage", meaning take preventive or corrective action.  It can only present data to something or someone who can take action.  The Engine Control Unit/Module (ECU/M) does have "management" functions, and can display warning and if not heeded, de-rate or completely shutdown the engine, as an example.  ScanD can not do that.  Some may think I'm splitting hairs, but I wanted to ensure readers that these would not "Manage" or Protect their coaches, that is usually left up to the operator, but if he ignores, there are built-in management systems to take over.

Some feel that reading a digital number is more accurate than an analog gauge, but they are only more precise.  The accuracy comes from the sensor, often the same sensor (like water temp or oil pressure) that the analog gauge uses.  

  -Rick N.

 

But isn’t there an accuracy difference if the two gauges have an obvious difference in readings?

[Ivan K]

Your Scangauge let's you see the exact same data that the ECU is seeing and reacting to. Only as accurate as the originating sensor but you always see what ECU sees, right or wrong. Unlike analog gauge that can show wrong info because of wiring issues along the way, voltage drop or often ground issues. I don't have shared sensors and doubt that Cummins would allow doing it that way.

[waterskier_1]

16 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

Your Scangauge let's you see the exact same data that the ECU is seeing and reacting to. Only as accurate as the originating sensor but you always see what ECU sees, right or wrong. Unlike analog gauge that can show wrong info because of wiring issues along the way, voltage drop or often ground issues. I don't have shared sensors and doubt that Cummins would allow doing it that way.

I wasn't clear.  When I said same, I didn't mean shared.  On my 8.3C, there were two identical sensors, one for the ECU and the other for the dash gauge.  I do agree that there is more likely wiring issues with the dash gauges, but that is not because they are not accurate.  If you have wiring issues with the ECU sensors, problems would also occur.  I think this topic has run it's course.

  -Rick N.

[DavidL]

20 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

My point was that those systems were not "Management" systems.  As you state, YOU can operate the coach - YOU are the Management system.  A ScanD can not "manage", meaning take preventive or corrective action.  It can only present data to something or someone who can take action.  The Engine Control Unit/Module (ECU/M) does have "management" functions, and can display warning and if not heeded, de-rate or completely shutdown the engine, as an example.  ScanD can not do that.  Some may think I'm splitting hairs, but I wanted to ensure readers that these would not "Manage" or Protect their coaches, that is usually left up to the operator, but if he ignores, there are built-in management systems to take over.

Some feel that reading a digital number is more accurate than an analog gauge, but they are only more precise.  The accuracy comes from the sensor, often the same sensor (like water temp or oil pressure) that the analog gauge uses.  

  -Rick N.

 

Hi Rick,

Yes, agreed.  Also note that there are many coaches that the analog gauges are CAN fed and do share same sensor as the powertrain ECU.

On mine, we wrote software that runs on our myServer controller on a Pi CAN hat.  Our automation software then gets the data via MQTT.  The myServer Automation Events software can execute actions when sensor data exceeds a value.  For example, to keep the dash simple, there is no coolant temp gauge taking up room as it is irrelevant unless it's "overly hot".  So, when the coolant temp exceeds it's threshold, a notification pops up, and the dash UI switches to the more detailed view that includes the temp gauge for end user monitoring.  Of course, another rule could be put into place to "turn on aux fan" or some mechanical action via a relay.

The UI includes means to manually go to the more detailed view as well if that is wanted.  Very common mistake end users make when they are building dashboards to cram every possible data element on the screen.  More is dangerous and distracting.  Hands on Wheel, Eyes on Road.

So, the entire dashboard can be "digital".  Including analog looking gauges if that is wanted for the UI design.

More work is needed to show this on my coach....too many other competing projects 🙂

Edited August 26, 2023 by DavidL

[saflyer]

20 hours ago, waterskier_1 said:

I wasn't clear.  When I said same, I didn't mean shared.  On my 8.3C, there were two identical sensors, one for the ECU and the other for the dash gauge.  I do agree that there is more likely wiring issues with the dash gauges, but that is not because they are not accurate.  If you have wiring issues with the ECU sensors, problems would also occur.  I think this topic has run it's course.

  -Rick N.

I think we should let the original poster or moderators decide when topics have run their course. Any reader has the option of no longer visiting the topic.

Ed

[Just Jim]

I currently have the Trip Tek ® 3100-5 Message Center, which is very basic and for some reason does not show the odometer reading that I think is supposed to be displayed???  Any suggestions on that would be appreciated.  I've read all the manuals and instructions on it to no avail. 

Anyway, looking at changing to some other monitoring system... most likely BlueFire as Silverleaf is no longer available.

Question:  Does my 03 Executive have a j1708 or a J1939 under the dash?  I took a quick look yesterday, not having read the thread yet and I seem to remember something looking like 9 pins, but they may not all be used? 

Question 2: Assuming it is the j1708 (6 pin) and I have the 3 wire cable under the arm rest... When combining these (as Scotty has done) I assume that the j1708 under the dash is eliminated?  What is the j1708 used for normally?  Do I need it?

Question 3:  If there is a J1939 is in the engine bay or front run box... can't the BlueFire be plugged in there?  Is the bluetooth signal not strong enough for that distance?

 

Sorry if these are stupid questions.  Electrical has never been my strong suit so I would prefer to just plug into something that is already existing rather than re-wiring a plug.  As Dirty Harry says.... "a man's got to know his limitations".

Jim