Converting Fluorescent to LED with addition of Night Light Motion Detection

[Mike Wahl]

We have been working on a project to convert all our interior lighting to LED.  With the recent addition of the residential refrigerator, we are doing ok with battery capacity when boondocking, but every bit helps.  We dislike the yellow color of the Halogen puck lights so we ordered up some new puck lights and are in the process of changing them all to cool white LED’s.

 As part of this process, we changed our 12-volt fluorescent lights over to LED.  We looked at the cost of ordering new lights that were the same size as our Thin Light 716xl. They were not cheap and after reviewing them and a few articles, we decided to convert them over to LED using the original housings, removing the fluorescent light parts, and adding COB LED strips.  COB stands for Chip on Board. With this type of COD LED’s you get a continuous light beam not individual lights.

 

We purchased the COB LED stirps on Amazen for around $25 and cut them to size and soldered on the wire connections.  It took me a little while to get the hang of soldering the wires to the LED strips, however once I got a process down it worked great.  There are many videos on You Tube that show how to do this.  The LED light strips come with 3M adhesive backing on them, so installation is easy.  Our light housings had a 45-degree angle on them allowed a great spot for installation of the LED strip.  We had 3 fluorescent lights to update.  Below is a photo of the light over the pantry with the lens off.  In this one we used 2 led strips.  In the one over the sink, we did the same but also added a strip down the middle. 

 

In the bathroom fixture, I also added a motion detector and short strip of LED connected to it as a night light.  I found a wire that is always hot for the fan and was able to drill a hole from one opening to the other and pull the wire.  On this light I have 2 circuits.  One circuit for the standard light which has a switch on the front of the vanity and one circuit for the motion detector night light, which can be shut off using the switch on the light.  With this setup, when the bathroom door is opened at night the light will automatically come on and stay on for the time set on the motion controller.  This addition was easy and low cost.  The controller was about $15 on Amazon and a little more wiring.  I had to drill a 5/8 hole for the motion sensor to mount in the light housing.  I also marked which wires are for each circuit to help when hooking them up.  I copied my wiring diagram and made a hand mark-up for this.  I will do an electronic mark-up when I get a chance.  This is something I’m particular about  because in my industry there is nothing worse than trying to trouble shoot a problem and not have the correct wiring diagrams.  If you have wiring diagrams and do wiring updates, do the new person a favor and update the diagrams.  Hand mark-ups are much better than no mark-ups.

        

Here is a photo of the light reinstalled with the lens in place.  In real life you can see the light bars through the lens.  I was able to hook up the motion sensor to the fan wires in the photo that are always hot.  I removed the fan cover and drill a 3/8 hole from the fan opening to the light opening and ran my wires over.  I also marked the wires in the fan opening.

[Rick A]

Thanks! 

[jacwjames]

Can you provide a link to the controller you used, looks like this would have multiple applications. 

[Rikadoo]

So mike i saw where you used cob over led, this is the second time i have seen this great modification of getting the old fluorescent lights out an upgrading. Looking at the cob light specs they state must use a dimmer? Are they ok with just direct battery voltage or ? I really like the motion sensor, however during a “nightime visit” i really dont want a bright light have you found a way to tone down the brighness? Also my experiance with cob is they get pretty “warm” in a enclosed area like the lamp assy have you found the lens getting warm after being left on for a while? 

[1nolaguy]

Mike, great project and I appreciate the way you presented it. Converting most of the florescent lights to led was one of my first projects back in 2018. Back then the most common LED strips available were SMD. Also, I had not heard about activators for 3M type tape as is found on many led strip lights. Over the last 5 years about 40% of the strip lights have lost adhesion and fallen inside the fixtures, primarily , I think, do to temperature swing combined with humidity when in storage. When I re-due them I will look for COB rather than SMD leds and will use activator as well as the trick with the motion detector you noted. We currently use a rechargable led strip light with a motion detector in the bathroom but getting hit in the face with a bright light can be a bit off putting. Your solution seem more elegant.

4 hours ago, jacwjames said:

Can you provide a link to the controller you used, looks like this would have multiple applications. 

Jim, I agree. One place I can think of right off the bat is for the step well lights when you come in or go out at night.

[Ivylog]

Hope you have better luck with LED strip lights than I have…reduced output and multiple chips out in a couple hundred hours. I agree with Loel’s comments about cob’s as I tried them in a couple of puck lights. Burned much hotter than the 5050 size chips I normally use and one melted a solder joint.

Since the energy savings going to LED is only 50%, I haven’t upgraded the only one I have in this MH. Previous Dynasty had several and instead of strips, I used 48 SMD 5050 panels…3 per fixture. If you add a couple of drops of super glue to the 3M on the corners or every 6” on the strips, they’ll stay in place.

[veraken]

I took a different approach.  Stripped out the ballast and bulbs, and installed these into the fixture. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09QY8ZHM3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

[Mike Wahl]

Updates for several questions

On 8/5/2023 at 7:44 AM, jacwjames said:

Can you provide a link to the controller you used, looks like this would have multiple applications. 

Link for the controller on Amazon.  https://a.co/d/9o9gwpa

20 hours ago, Rikadoo said:

So mike i saw where you used cob over led, this is the second time i have seen this great modification of getting the old fluorescent lights out an upgrading. Looking at the cob light specs they state must use a dimmer? Are they ok with just direct battery voltage or ? I really like the motion sensor, however during a “nightime visit” i really dont want a bright light have you found a way to tone down the brighness? Also my experiance with cob is they get pretty “warm” in a enclosed area like the lamp assy have you found the lens getting warm after being left on for a while? 

I'm running them on direct 12 volt voltage with no dimmer and have not had any issues..  They do get warmer than the standard LED strips, however I have ran for several hours testing and hasn't been an issue yet.  I will update if I run into any.  For the night visit I only have the center 10" or so of led strip light come on.  If we find it is to much I will pull a section of it off and shorten it.  With the lens in place it defuses the lights well. 

 

17 hours ago, Ivylog said:

Hope you have better luck with LED strip lights than I have…reduced output and multiple chips out in a couple hundred hours. I agree with Loel’s comments about cob’s as I tried them in a couple of puck lights. Burned much hotter than the 5050 size chips I normally use and one melted a solder joint.

This is definitely a concern of mine, however I have tested this type in household application and they have lasted well, however they do not get the temperate swings and road vibration they will in the coach.  Time will tell.  I like the idea of the panels you attached.  I had not thought of that idea.  If I run into issues with these, that will be my next attempt.

 

20 hours ago, 1nolaguy said:

Also, I had not heard about activators for 3M type tape as is found on many led strip lights. Over the last 5 years about 40% of the strip lights have lost adhesion and fallen inside the fixtures, primarily , I think, do to temperature swing combined with humidity when in storage.

I looked for lights with 3M tape, these are labeled 3M.  My experience is the 3M tape with the activator works well.  Time will tell. I also did like Ivylog stated and put a few drops of glue on each end.

 

I will keep you up to date as time goes by with these lights.  What I know so far is my significate other really likes the night light in the bathroom.  She opens the door and the light come on.

 

[Rick A]

2 hours ago, veraken said:

I took a different approach.  Stripped out the ballast and bulbs, and installed these into the fixture. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09QY8ZHM3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Did one unit provide enough lighting? Looks great with clean simple installation. 

[Dave Pumphrey]

I saw the link to the controller, how about a link to the light strips?

I have been thinking of a 2nd low level of light for the bathroom, this looks perfect!

Thank You!

[Mike Wahl]

9 minutes ago, Dave Pumphrey said:

I saw the link to the controller, how about a link to the light strips?

I have been thinking of a 2nd low level of light for the bathroom, this looks perfect!

Thank You!

 

Sorry about that should have added that in the beginning.

https://a.co/d/cDO6y3a

[1nolaguy]

3 hours ago, veraken said:

I took a different approach.  Stripped out the ballast and bulbs, and installed these into the fixture. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09QY8ZHM3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

very interesting approach. Appears a lot simpler and possibly quicker for about the same money.

[jacwjames]

4 hours ago, veraken said:

I took a different approach.  Stripped out the ballast and bulbs, and installed these into the fixture. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09QY8ZHM3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

How many of these did you put in each fixture?

[veraken]

4 hours ago, jacwjames said:

How many of these did you put in each fixture?

Just one.  Each has 120 LED which provided enough light

4 hours ago, 1nolaguy said:

very interesting approach. Appears a lot simpler and possibly quicker for about the same money.

Definitely simpler.  I tried using the strips, some burned out and the adhesive failed.  

5 hours ago, Rick A said:

Did one unit provide enough lighting? Looks great with clean simple installation. 

One provided plenty of light.

[Chargerman]

8 hours ago, veraken said:

I took a different approach.  Stripped out the ballast and bulbs, and installed these into the fixture. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09QY8ZHM3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

Those things are awesome. Don’t know what I’ll use them for but I have to order them. Might be good in the engine bay or in the front generator bay. 

[veraken]

8 minutes ago, Chargerman said:

Those things are awesome. Don’t know what I’ll use them for but I have to order them. Might be good in the engine bay or in the front generator bay. 

That's where I got the original idea from.

 

[Chargerman]

There you go. A great replacement for the incandescent storage bay lights. 👍

Edited August 6, 2023 by Chargerman

[Mike Wahl]

On 8/5/2023 at 11:09 AM, Rikadoo said:

Also my experiance with cob is they get pretty “warm” in a enclosed area like the lamp assy have you found the lens getting warm after being left on for a while? 

I had not noticed an heat problems during my unscientific testing, but after you asked it made me wonder.  So today I was working in the coach so I turned on the one under the sink and the one in the bathroom.  It was about 80°F here today.  I tested the temperature on the outside of the lens in the area of the LED using a inferred thermal gun.

1. After 1/2 hour the lens was 10°F hotter than the surrounding area
2. After 1 hour the lens was 10°F hotter than the surrounding area
3. After 3 hours the lens was 12°F hotter than the surrounding area
4. After 6 hours the lens was 15°F hotter than the surrounding area

From my "testing" it looks like they do grow in temperature over time and run 10°f to 20° hotter than the surrounding surfaces.  The housing are made out of aluminum on these lights so it works as a good heat sink also.

[DennisZ]

19 hours ago, veraken said:

Just one.  Each has 120 LED which provided enough light

Definitely simpler.  I tried using the strips, some burned out and the adhesive failed.  

One provided plenty of light.

Do you have a picture of your install in the fixture?

[Tom Cherry]

On 8/4/2023 at 10:09 PM, Mike Wahl said:

We have been working on a project to convert all our interior lighting to LED.  With the recent addition of the residential refrigerator, we are doing ok with battery capacity when boondocking, but every bit helps.  We dislike the yellow color of the Halogen puck lights so we ordered up some new puck lights and are in the process of changing them all to cool white LED’s.

 As part of this process, we changed our 12-volt fluorescent lights over to LED.  We looked at the cost of ordering new lights that were the same size as our Thin Light 716xl. They were not cheap and after reviewing them and a few articles, we decided to convert them over to LED using the original housings, removing the fluorescent light parts, and adding COB LED strips.  COB stands for Chip on Board. With this type of COD LED’s you get a continuous light beam not individual lights.

 

We purchased the COB LED stirps on Amazen for around $25 and cut them to size and soldered on the wire connections.  It took me a little while to get the hang of soldering the wires to the LED strips, however once I got a process down it worked great.  There are many videos on You Tube that show how to do this.  The LED light strips come with 3M adhesive backing on them, so installation is easy.  Our light housings had a 45-degree angle on them allowed a great spot for installation of the LED strip.  We had 3 fluorescent lights to update.  Below is a photo of the light over the pantry with the lens off.  In this one we used 2 led strips.  In the one over the sink, we did the same but also added a strip down the middle. 

 

In the bathroom fixture, I also added a motion detector and short strip of LED connected to it as a night light.  I found a wire that is always hot for the fan and was able to drill a hole from one opening to the other and pull the wire.  On this light I have 2 circuits.  One circuit for the standard light which has a switch on the front of the vanity and one circuit for the motion detector night light, which can be shut off using the switch on the light.  With this setup, when the bathroom door is opened at night the light will automatically come on and stay on for the time set on the motion controller.  This addition was easy and low cost.  The controller was about $15 on Amazon and a little more wiring.  I had to drill a 5/8 hole for the motion sensor to mount in the light housing.  I also marked which wires are for each circuit to help when hooking them up.  I copied my wiring diagram and made a hand mark-up for this.  I will do an electronic mark-up when I get a chance.  This is something I’m particular about  because in my industry there is nothing worse than trying to trouble shoot a problem and not have the correct wiring diagrams.  If you have wiring diagrams and do wiring updates, do the new person a favor and update the diagrams.  Hand mark-ups are much better than no mark-ups.

        

Here is a photo of the light reinstalled with the lens in place.  In real life you can see the light bars through the lens.  I was able to hook up the motion sensor to the fan wires in the photo that are always hot.  I removed the fan cover and drill a 3/8 hole from the fan opening to the light opening and ran my wires over.  I also marked the wires in the fan opening.

Excellent write up and information.  My only reason for positing, other than the thanks is to caution folks with the Intellitec MPX key pad lights to experiment, and I hope someone will or maybe @Frank McElroy or @pwhittle can answer and chime in.  
 

I’m guessing that you have dual 12 VDC to an overhead light.  The switch lead or switch leg will turn on the light from a switch…wall or wherever and it stays on.  Then you ran another power lead from your exhaust fan….where you found full time or direct 12 VDC.  This is where it gets a bit “tricky” or complicated, at least for my brain.  

On my “Hybrid” Intellitec MPX, the Fluorescents are on an ON/OFF Intellitec Module.  So, when you push the bathroom light key pad or button, it then signals the correct output module (typically 10 separate circuits on each), to TOGGLE. So, if ON….it turns OFF…or vice versa.  OK…so far so good….now the question or dilemma?  Or MAYBE not.

My Fantastic fans operate off the same Module as the Fluorescent Lights….I THINK.  However, due to the load of the motors, the 12 VDC to the fan is switched (from a constant fused source) via a Bosch relay.  ONLY MONACO…LOL.  Therefore, I would have to leave my Fantastic Fan ON….   So I am thinking that adding a Motion Sensor to one that I had converted would not work.  I don’t have a dedicated full time 12 VDC line in the fan.  Your system must have a dedicated (fused) 12 VDC line to the fan and then Monaco ran a switch leg to the switch. 
 

EVEN if i could find such a line and then be able to power the Motion Detector, I might add a diode array, like Roadmaster makes for brake and tail lights to prevent the possibility of a backfeed into the module.  I would not want to, in any way, put the Intellitec Module(s) at risk…due to the scarcity and cost of a new one…

I’m just posing that scenario for those that do have the Hybrid MPX or the CPU controlled MPX.

Hope to get an answer or comment from our Intellitec GURU’s….and we probably have a few more that Frank and Paul…but i know their level of knowledge and flagged them in the post.

Great Job and ingenious.  The motion detector is clever.  If there is not a way to add one to my MOX bathroom fixture, then, I’ll just stick to the $5 LED photocell operated one that we leave plugged in all the time…LOL….probably can get a motion sensor version…if it ever dies….will upgrade…

[veraken]

7 hours ago, DennisZ said:

Do you have a picture of your install in the fixture?

Here you go.  Please ignore the yellow strips on the smaller lights, they are remnants from a previous attempt to update to LED

[Pduggs]

I had an issue with my puck lights and called M&M RV Electronics for help. I believe it was Mike I spoke with and he asked me if I had the fluorescent lights still in the coach, which I did. He said replace them as they can cause interference with the Intellitec system. So, the switch to led lights makes sense in more ways than one. 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Pduggs said:

I had an issue with my puck lights and called M&M RV Electronics for help. I believe it was Mike I spoke with and he asked me if I had the fluorescent lights still in the coach, which I did. He said replace them as they can cause interference with the Intellitec system. So, the switch to led lights makes sense in more ways than one. 

Yes.  There are two issues on the Intellitec MPX system, and that is for the Hybrid one in the Camelot/Scepter as well as the full CPU one in the Dynasty/Imperial and up.

First, yes a defective ballast can emit some strange and sometimes potent EMF/EMI/RFI or whatever you call the strange electromagnetic pulse or energy and that will or can play havoc with the Intellitec system….primarily, I think, the output modules.  It also can, and has impacted the Dometic MPX thermostat systems.  Now, to the best of my knowledge, there is no permanent damage, but the system will act erratically and is a PITA to chase and troubleshoot.  PressurePro, the TPMS, has also reported or suspects that the strange critters in the “air waves” will impact the range and sensitivity of remote sensors…again, this is NOT some sort of voltage spike or surge that will cause damage to PCB or chips.

Second, and we have had a few instances here, a defective ballast will, or at least when we helped some members, more current on that circuit.  Then the fuse might blow on the Intellitec, or if that doesn’t happen , the whole circuit of fluorescents will just “not work”.  Members have turned off, assuming there is a side ON/OFF switch and all was well on the other fixtures….but obviously this is like a ticking time bomb.

Again, a nuance, but the first step M&M, in a bit of overkill, recommends is to pull the 10 amp fuse on every fluorescent circuit on every module that has one…they believe, and our noted Intellitec experts don’t totally agree, that even a wire running to a faulty ballast, with no power, can act as an antenna.  But, doing that totally removes the fluorescent ballasts and if the “gee, what is causing this?” condition goes away….get rid of the ballasts.  Mine are 2008 ballasts and we have upwards of 700 nights out.  But we rarely use the large living room fixtures and I switched off one of them and we don’t leave the hall or bathroom lights on at night and i cut off one in the bedroom and use the puck lights most of the time.

Thanks for making the comment so that the background is a little clearer.

NOW…again, defective ballasts have been reported to cause issues, and this is rare, but documented, in the Dometic HVAC thermostats.  No idea how it might impact the digital replacements or the BT units on the Haughton RecPro (sp).

[Robert92867]

Send me your used good ballasts.  

[veraken]

On 8/14/2023 at 9:38 AM, Robert92867 said:

Send me your used good ballasts.  

On the road now and won't be home until end of month.  Contact me then, and we can make arrangements.