2005 Safari Cheetah. Headlights & Taillight upgrades causing weird things to happen

[1nolaguy]

OK, I am stumped with this one. I was not sure where to post so if this should be moved I ask the moderator to please do so. So I did not have this issue before but just occurred when I took our MH (2005 Safari Cheetah 40' DP) out of storage. When I turn on the headlights the The marker lights and break lights are on bright as if the brakes are applied. As a result, when I apply the brakes there is no visible indication as the lights are already "bright". If however I turn off the headlights all the marker and tail lights work as they should. Normally I would say this is not a big issue as I hate driving at night but my DW wants me to run  the light during the day for"safety" reasons, which of course would not be an issue if I also had brake lights.

Now in full disclosure about nothing in the lighting system is original. I replaced the headlights and marker lights with LEDs' but the wiring is the same as the original. I replaced the headlight switch in the dash about 3 years ago. I also have a 60" led brake light strip but that is plugged into the 4 pin connector in the rear. All of these mods were made with everything still working correctly. It has only after an 8 month storage period that the issue occurred. I am going to try to trouble shoot this tomorrow while we have a down day at an RV park. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[Ivan K]

So there is no chance that you have dual lamps for brake and park and they just have to be reversed?

[Rikadoo]

Hey Loel, sounds like a ground problem, grounds drop out an all of a sudden everything goe wonky… If nothing else thats a great starting point

[1nolaguy]

Yep, I figured that is where I would start looking tomorrow.

4 minutes ago, Ivan K said:

So there is no chance that you have dual lamps for brake and park and they just have to be reversed?

The taillights are 3 wire (two elements) so normally with head lights on there is one element glowing and when the brakes are applied there are 2 elements. Standard old halogen/incandescent lights (type 1157).

[MyronTruex]

LED"S require little power so leakage voltage can cause some very strange symptoms.

As suggested, bad ground can cause untold craziness, not to be confused with wonkiness. 

Get a voltmeter and a long piece of wire to connect to the negative terminal of your battery bank. 

Using this long wire will ensure you have a proper ground for your meter and for the following test. You can fuse the long wire near the battery with a very small fuse, such as a 5 amp. This fuse will protect things as you can potentially hit the wrong wire.

Measure your led voltages and write them down during the various scenarios you mention. Measure the ground side of your lights during those tests as well. 

If you see any voltage on the ground side of the lights, use your long long wire to temporarily make a solid known ground for the lights. Hopefully this will help.

If you can simply unplug the led strip light you mention AFTER the tests above, I would do so.

 

[Ivylog]

I’d replace the led brake lights with the ones you took out and see what happens 

[Dr4Film]

Grounds seem to haywire when in storage for whatever reasons.

That would be my first go around making sure they are good and solid.

[waterskier_1]

Ok, when you turn on the headlights, the marker and brake lights come on.  Can you tell if the "tail light" (the lights that should be on) are on too?  What happens when you turn on your turn signal - do any lights flash? 

You post thet if you turn off the headlights all the marker and tail light work as they should.  What exactly do you mean by "turn off the headlights"?  If you turn them off, there should be no marker or tail lights to work.  Do you mean they are off as they should be.  Or, do you mean by "turn off the headlights" that you just put the parking lights on?  That would allow the marker lights to be on too.  In this case, do the brake lights come on when the brake is depressed, as normal? 

If things do work correctly with the Parking lights on, then your problem resides in the headlights and their wiring.  I would first disconnect the headlights, as close to the headlights as possible.  Then turn on the headlight switch and evaluate.  Do things work as normal, or are the brake lights on all the time?  If things are normal, the headlights are the problem.  If they don't work, then the switch and wiring to the headlights are the problem.

  -Rick N.

[dandick66]

On 10/21/2023 at 9:35 PM, 1nolaguy said:

OK, I am stumped with this one. I was not sure where to post so if this should be moved I ask the moderator to please do so. So I did not have this issue before but just occurred when I took our MH (2005 Safari Cheetah 40' DP) out of storage. When I turn on the headlights the The marker lights and break lights are on bright as if the brakes are applied. As a result, when I apply the brakes there is no visible indication as the lights are already "bright". If however I turn off the headlights all the marker and tail lights work as they should. Normally I would say this is not a big issue as I hate driving at night but my DW wants me to run  the light during the day for"safety" reasons, which of course would not be an issue if I also had brake lights.

Now in full disclosure about nothing in the lighting system is original. I replaced the headlights and marker lights with LEDs' but the wiring is the same as the original. I replaced the headlight switch in the dash about 3 years ago. I also have a 60" led brake light strip but that is plugged into the 4 pin connector in the rear. All of these mods were made with everything still working correctly. It has only after an 8 month storage period that the issue occurred. I am going to try to trouble shoot this tomorrow while we have a down day at an RV park. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

The marker lights are single filament, so they only have one level of brightness and they should only illuminate when the parking lights or headlights are switched on.  
Try this:  Start the engine with the headlights off.  Apply the brakes.  Do the brake lights illuminate?  If they don’t illuminate then you don’t need to look at your headlight switch. 
If they do illuminate, then turn your headlights on.  Is there any change in the brightness of the brake lights?  
 

[1nolaguy]

Thanks Dave. I'll check this out tomorrow. Long day behind the wheel today.

[1nolaguy]

On 10/21/2023 at 8:43 PM, Ivan K said:

So there is no chance that you have dual lamps for brake and park and they just have to be reversed?

No, These work and have worked fine since those were changed over a year ago. Note: the regular brake/tail lights are Halogen as I could not find an LED that worked well (bright enough).

Update: I have not had a chance to check this out yet as we ran into other , more pressing plumbing issues. Will be fixing the the last of the plumbing issues today as well as diving back into the electric issues. We leave in two days so I want to get to the bottom of this today.

[1nolaguy]

Update: this continues to be a conundrum and I am running out of time.

I replaced the tail light strip(led) that plug into the 4 pin connector. I've checked all connections, redid ground, and still having issue. Left signal does not com on, and brake and running lights work when head lights are off but not when head lights are on. Help!

 

[MyronTruex]

Quote: When I turn on the headlights the The marker lights and brake lights are on bright as if the brakes are applied. 

So the running/marker lights are likely feeding the brake light due to an internal bulb short. 

Remove your running/brake light bulbs and test your marker lights and headlights. If they seem normal, put one bulb back in. If the problem comes back, switch to the other bulb. 

I can't say for sure but this has happened before, or someone has replaced bulbs with the wrong part number.