Wandering and difficulty keeping the coach straight

[JimC295]

OK this is probably a stupid question but as some will say "there r no stupid questions". I have been reading everything on the forum about steering issues I also have been consulting with Chad Young. I crawled under my coach and took pics and am pretty sure I have an M100 Sheppard box . My question is I thought these boxes were mounted directly to the frame and the hole that needs to be drilled was into the frame to adjust the TRW box. Mine is mounted a good 3 to 4 inches away from the frame so any adjustment could be done I would think with a wrench and a stubby screwdriver.

1 more question is the H frame everyone is talking about and the Watts X braces, is that only on RR8 chassis. I looked at the Monaco watts site and they do not have anything listed for RR4.

Edited November 30, 2023 by JimC295
added pic

[cbr046]

You can see "Sheppard" and "M100" cast into the metal.  Yup, that's a Sheppard box.

Interesting . . . . I'm pretty sure my pittman arm's offset is the other direction, and no spacers on my box (2003 Endeavor).  My plate is welded in whereas yours appears to be bolted. 

Which makes me wonder . . . . if I could add spacers and offset my pittman arm like yours so I don't have to drill the hole?  It would mean extra leverage of the box against the frame.  I'm inclined NOT to do this with the extra weight of the Endeavor vs Knight. 

Keep an eye on your steering fluid. 

- bob

[JimC295]

I have a filter and need to install. I've got a minor leak and because of my research into this topic I'm a little confused about my box. The pittman arm has the previous owners name on it so I'm wondering if he had someone make changes to the system. I don't think mine would work with it bolted to the frame because the generator is right against the frame.

[Robert92867]

Looks exactly the original factory installation. like mine.

[Robert92867]

What is the condition of your tie rods? Any unusual vibration, clunking noise, or pull to one side or the other? How do your track bars look, are the thru bolts tight? Check these before jumping into the steering gear. and yes, the h frame only applies to RR8 chassis. Many have advised 2-person inspection;  One turning the steering wheel while at idle, the other underneath observing for loose parts.

[JimC295]

10 hours ago, Robert92867 said:

What is the condition of your tie rods? Any unusual vibration, clunking noise, or pull to one side or the other? How do your track bars look, are the thru bolts tight? Check these before jumping into the steering gear. and yes, the h frame only applies to RR8 chassis. Many have advised 2-person inspection;  One turning the steering wheel while at idle, the other underneath observing for loose parts.

In the front everything appears tight. I asked a friend to observe the movement as I turned the wheel. I was just a little concerned when all were talking about drilling the hole for the adjustment screw when it appeared I didn't  need to. I am confident that it is the box causing the issue, it is a real white knuckle drive at times. I live on a dirt road and I can move the wheel several inches in either direction without changing direction while driving 15-20mph.

You mentioned the track bars I have what I think is the original design so I'm thinking I need the source engineering bars or at a minimum get mine welded up by a competent welder.

[Joint Venture]

As the title "Wandering and difficulty keeping the coach straight" suggests, was exactly what my problem was for me. After I had Fyda Freightliner in Zanesville, OH inspect our coach they found my drag link worn excessively. Replaced it and steering problem was resolved. I did learn that a drag link for my coach was very difficult to find but Ultra RV Products had mine in stock. https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/

[JimC295]

I have to give a shout out to Rev group. I determined I needed to ask for the build sheet for my coach. Ifound out I needed to verify the model number of my sheppard box. I emailed them yesterday mid afternoon and got an answer before 5 pm. AWESOME response! My Sheppard pn is PMN34 so now the hunt is on for a trw replacement.

[Les Hurdle]

<< it is a real white knuckle drive at times. I live on a dirt road and I can move the wheel several inches in either direction without changing direction while driving 15-20mph.>>.  I also have a constant need to correct by a considerable amount, in high winds the steering wheel can be turned 90 degrees to keep the unit straight.

I'm taking it back to a front end guy on Monday since he gave it the all clear a few months back.

[Rico K 2005 Knight]

RoadmasterR4R_FMC1109-2.pdf

Read the attachment on rear suspension issues that caused the rr4 and rr4r chassis to handle poorly. Hope it's not you but just to be on the safe side.

[JimC295]

2 minutes ago, Rico K 2005 Knight said:

RoadmasterR4R_FMC1109-2.pdf 128.41 kB · 1 download

Read the attachment on rear suspension issues that caused the rr4 and rr4r chassis to handle poorly. Hope it's not you but just to be on the safe side.

Ive been alerted to that issue. Ive inspected mine but not really close. After I get my gearbox changed out that is next.

[Rico K 2005 Knight]

Well hopefully you will not need to replace them but check closely for cracks right at the axle with good light. They say that even if yours have been replaced to still check them every year. In case you do need them don't buy the Monaco set there is an aftermarket market set out there that is claimed to be 6 times stronger. BTW, this issue will cause your coach to handle poorly just incase your steering box doesn't fix your problem. Cheers.

[Les Hurdle]

I know Tom posted something about front end bushing etc , but the 'lists' don't seem to conform to 'dates'........  anyway, thanks for the help.

I called Source spoke to Jim......... my he is no PR guy 🤣.......... however, he told me.  I BUILT THOSE COACHES and they have 1 million mile bushings in them and were not the problem........ as a customer on both ends, what do I know.   Source had a 'front end replacement 2004-2015'.   I suggest that.  NO, you just need the bags etc.  I'm confused, they work just fine, it's the clonk on braking etc which concerns me.......... sure would like the complete front end $2500.  So I have given my rv guy the source number and will leave those guys to sort it out.

[JimC295]

Ive got my TRW gear box and Pittman arm ordered. Not sure when I'll get it installed but I'll have it if and when we get a mild day this winter. I emailed Nick Vangeest and he got my stuff coming right away. Great service. I started with John Vanlaan but he is no longer in the steering department but he was able to get me the number I needed and some instructions from the forum that he said were edited by Weller to ensure all the I's and T's were crossed and dotted and forwarded the info to Nick.

[cbr046]

  

On 12/12/2023 at 9:38 AM, zmotorsports said:

 I use my Proto 3/4" torque wrench that has a 120-600 ft/lb. range and it makes the 450- ft/lb application nice and easy. 

Although I've got enough a$! to not need a cheater bar.  🤣

Evidently I'm all out of a$!.  All I can get with my 3+1 ft of breaker bar is 427 ft lbs.  I could, and might, make it 6 ft but I can see the 3/4" drive bar bending, considerably, and I'm running out of room and angles for my steering box swapout.   One slip (or pin breaking) and the bar goes into the coach body.  I thought about getting creative with a bottle jack, or chaining it to the 4-Runner LOL, but @Tom Cherry correlated fools not knowing what they're doing and catastrophe.  No, I won't be going there . . . .

Although there's no appearance of rust or corrosion I've also heated the one accessible nut with a 1000W induction heater.  It gets the 7/8" nut smokin but no change in color.  Maybe I should have bought the 1800W heater . . . . I don't think that's the problem anyway, and I can't access the other 2 nuts, only the bolt heads, on the other side. 

Torque multiplier is out of the question - no room, nor can I justify $550 for a Milwaukee M18 Anvil Impact Wrench.  It won't fit in the space anyway. 

So outside of spending big bucks for a shop to do the steering box swapout anyone have a good idea on loosening the 3 steering box mounting bolts? 

If I can just get these 3 nuts / bolts loose I can move on to being crushed by an 80 lb steering box falling off a floor jack. 

I also have a leaky exhaust manifold and anticipate a different bolt loosening problem, one that could turn a bad day into a really bad day.  I've seen countless manifold bolt videos . . . . If it goes to the shop they may get a two-for-one deal.  CHA-CHING!

- bob

 

[RNMCBR]

Bob,

I have removed difficult or frozen nuts by various destructive methods including heating them red hot with a torch, splitting them with an angle grinder and a cold chisel, splitting them by drilling successive and increasingly larger holes across one or opposite flats and then using a cold chisel, drilling out the center of the bolt(or drilling the bolt head off), using a pneumatic hammer with a chisel bit to turn the nut, etc. I have not cut any off with a torch yet but would do that if needed. These techniques are not pretty but without adequate space to use a big cheater or impact, they can work. BTW, I bought one of the Milwaukee M18 1200lbft impact guns and it is pretty good. I also have one of the earlier HF reaction torque multipliers and I think I could twist off my wheel studs with it. That’s what I used to remove my steering gear, but it was a very tight fit. It’s difficult to justify expensive tools but with today’s shop rates, a little easier than before. Maybe some others have ideas as well. 
good luck

Roy

[jacwjames]

I was helping my brother this summer work on a jet ski, the new owner ran it up on a sand/rock bar and sucked a bunch of rocks through the impeller damaging it and the housing.  We got the impeller out, which is screwed onto the shaft.  Had it in a large vise and both he and I tried to break it loose, and we ain't wimps.  He finally pulled out a small torch and heated the outside of the impeller and I put a cheater bar on the wrench and finally broke it loose. 

He had something like this, https://www.lowes.com/pd/BernzOmatic-Soldering-and-Brazing-Torch-Head/5014236239

Suppose to get to ~3600F.  Heated two opposite sides of the impeller and it expanded enough to loosen it, still took a lot of force. 

[dl_racing427]

2 hours ago, RNMCBR said:

Bob,

I have removed difficult or frozen nuts by various destructive methods including heating them red hot with a torch, splitting them with an angle grinder and a cold chisel, splitting them by drilling successive and increasingly larger holes across one or opposite flats and then using a cold chisel, drilling out the center of the bolt(or drilling the bolt head off), using a pneumatic hammer with a chisel bit to turn the nut, etc. I have not cut any off with a torch yet but would do that if needed. These techniques are not pretty but without adequate space to use a big cheater or impact, they can work. BTW, I bought one of the Milwaukee M18 1200lbft impact guns and it is pretty good. I also have one of the earlier HF reaction torque multipliers and I think I could twist off my wheel studs with it. That’s what I used to remove my steering gear, but it was a very tight fit. It’s difficult to justify expensive tools but with today’s shop rates, a little easier than before. Maybe some others have ideas as well. 
good luck

Roy

Agreed. Plus, when you buy the tools, you have them for the next job that comes along.

[Ivan K]

18 minutes ago, dl_racing427 said:

Agreed. Plus, when you buy the tools, you have them for the next job that comes along.

Exactly my philosophy too, all the tools I had to get pretty much paid for themselves the first time I needed them and never had to take the coach and leave it for who knows how long in some other shop.

[jacwjames]

2 hours ago, Ivan K said:

Exactly my philosophy too, all the tools I had to get pretty much paid for themselves the first time I needed them and never had to take the coach and leave it for who knows how long in some other shop.

I've always been frugal when purchasing tools, has to be really justified.   When I started building the new house I had a good selection of wood working tools but took the opportunity to buy new tools as needed.  It was definitely justified.  Bought a decent 12" cut off saw when I started doing the trim & cabinet work since it could cut ~16" panels or wide boards.  Bought a good Milwaukee drill with 90 degree chuck when I did all the wiring/plumbing so I could drill through all the studs as I was running wires and pex.  Some misc tools as necessary but nothing on  whim, it has to be justified.   But considering all the work I did myself on the house I saved +$150K (maybe more) building the house doing as much of the work as I could myself (and my body paid dearly for it)!!

 

Now my wife has taken up the hobby of milk painting furniture and she has shelves of brushes, cans of paint, different gizmos.  Get an Amazon package almost every day.  I got back from my last trip 7 weeks ago and need to get my Jeep in the garage to work on it but she's working on a cabinet that's been in the garage for 2 years.  I just have grin and bite my tongue.   🤬

[Les Hurdle]

My wife has NO hobbies etc........... I can assure that is worse.

 

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, Les Hurdle said:

My wife has NO hobbies etc........... I can assure that is worse.

 

OH, and did I mention my wife has 12 dogs, way too many to take in the motorhome so we haven't taken a trip together since 2015.  I've taken several long trips by myself over the last 3 years.