What are the Odds? 3 Tires Deflated! Can I still use them?

[Bill R]

Arrived at the storage facility this morning, went to enter the coach, and what did my eyes see, the passenger side steer tire was completely deflated.  Rim and tire bead separated.  I had just driven the coach for a short 30 mile drive three days earlier and tire pressures were fine in all tires at the end of the drive.  

I use the PressurePro FX TPMS.  These sensors do not have replaceable batteries, and to save on battery life, if you relieve the pressure on the sensors they are not active.  So when my coach is not in use, I have been loosening each sensor from the valve stem just enough to hear air release and the valve stem seat, and I leave them on the stem for the next trip. 

So my mind was thinking, "I must not have loosened the sensor enough to have the valve stem seat."  Even though this has NEVER happened for the past 30-40 times over the past 3 years.  And I am always very purposeful in loosening the sensor enough to hear the stem seat.  (Ok, at this point I admit this may not be the best thing to do, but it did come as a tip from a PressurePro Tech person who claimed this is what they suggest to customers)

Well there is always the first time.......BUT WAIT.......I walk around to the drivers side to see how much lean is on the coach, and what did my eyes see, the drivers steer tire is completely deflated with rim and tire bead separated. 

My mind is going nuts.  "Could I have done this for both steer tires, can't be."   Now I am becoming skeptical and curious and decide to check the drive tires.  The outside drive tires were visibly inflated and pressure gauge showed 95 psi.  The drivers side inside drive tire was a 95 psi, BUT....the passenger side inside drive tire was also completely deflated, and tire bead separated from the rim.   

THREE COMPLETELY DEFLATED TIRES!!!

What is going on?  What are the odds of 3 tire valve stems sticking all at the same time?  Or....could there have been some mischief that occurred at the storage facility by others?  This is Memorial Day, so no staff at the facility to inquire if any other incidents have been reported.  There has been in the past some mischief at this storage facility.  There are cameras, but not sure how useful they are.

These tires are 5 year old Toyo M144's, have about 20,000 miles, and are in great shape. 

What do you think?  Is it ok if I have a mobile tire service come out, dismount tires, and if a visual inspection does not show any damage, check valve stems, reseat the bead, air up, mount and move on?  The coach was not moved at all with the tires deflated.  As you see them in the pics is how they are.

Moving forward regardless of what may have caused this, now in between trips I will completely remove all the tire sensors and put on sealed stem caps.

 

[Tom Cherry]

From the cheap seats. OR the “Sadder but Wiser” section.  

ANY VIDEO SURVEILLANCE FOOTAGE?  

During the “usage” season, I leave my TPMS (PP … like yours) in place.  If I pull them, I use a STEEL cap with an internal O-Ring…which I do verify before putting on.

I’d call Mr. Mobile Tire Guy…inspect…and air up.  BUT…I would have 6 (no tag) NEW valve stems and have them installed.  My thoughts.  I have all the newer design PP Stems with the “improved” seals and also the more reliable “plunger”.  PP, and this goes back a ways, had issues and had to redesign the seals and stem (plunger) as it was a weak spot…  I Beta tested them maybe 8 years or longer….ago.  So, odds are….you have the better design.

I MIGHT ask Mr. MTG if he has some of the “sticky” sealer that is used when the beads and rims are a bit “incompatible” and apply a generous coating of that….just to be sure….

 

[96 EVO]

Interested in seeing what replies you get.

I don't consider myself qualified to advise either way, especially with 2 of them being steer tires!

[Georgia Mike]

I would go ahead and get new steer tires being since they are 5 years old and had all the weight of the rim sitting on them. I would just air up the rear tire since it was supported by the other tire as long as it looks in good condition. I’m just overly cautious with steer tires trying to do everything possible to avoid a blow out. 

[Ivan K]

If you are considering keeping the tires, get them inflated asap. Once the axle is jacked up, the bead should get seated on its own but may take a bit and may also take some of the slimy stuff to help it. The M144s are beefy in the sidewall area, especially the bead circle and the rim isn't very sharp but bending it like that for long isn't good for them and will cause cracks, obviously. And, like Mike, I go 5 years on steers anyway.

[Frank McElroy]

Are you running balance beads inside the tires?  Even when using the high quality ceramic beads they can still generate a small amount of dust that can prevent the stem valve from completely sealing.  One valve maybe - unlikely 3 at the same time.  When I hear the air stop, I back off 2 more turns to be sure.

[Bill R]

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

If I pull them, I use a STEEL cap with an internal O-Ring…which I do verify before putting on.

Yes, I had been using these caps before I started leaving the sensors on.  Thanks Tom for the PP history and insight.  I'll ask about surveillance video tomorrow when they are open.

1 hour ago, Georgia Mike said:

I would go ahead and get new steer tires being since they are 5 years old and had all the weight of the rim sitting on them. I would just air up the rear tire since it was supported by the other tire as long as it looks in good condition. I’m just overly cautious with steer tires trying to do everything possible to avoid a blow out. 

Thanks Mike - Steer tires may be in the near future.  Right now just want to get the coach rims off the ground.

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

The M144s are beefy in the sidewall area, especially the bead circle and the rim isn't very sharp but bending it like that for long isn't good for them and will cause cracks, obviously.

Did not know that Ivan about the M144s.  Thanks, hoping all looks good and beads can seal without removing the wheels.

 

21 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

Are you running balance beads inside the tires?  Even when using the high quality ceramic beads they can still generate a small amount of dust that can prevent the stem valve from completely sealing.  One valve maybe - unlikely 3 at the same time.  When I hear the air stop, I back off 2 more turns to be sure.

Frank - I have the Balance Masters, so no beads.  That makes the 3 at one time even more suspicious.  And I also will back off a few turns after the air stops to make sure.  Even many times remove all the way and then back on about 1 1/2 turns back.  So I am very confident that the PP sensor is not pushing the valve stem at all.

Hopefully I can get the Mobile Tire Mechanic out tomorrow and see how they look and do a soap test on the stems.  I will update this post as to what I find.

[windsorbill06]

I'm a 5 year guy on the steers.

Why not replace only the steers now , and wait a couple years on the drives.  That way you can stagger the sticker shock a little.

 

gut feeling is there is some 'hanky panky' going on at the storage unit.  

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

OK….general reading and depending on the Internet for full accuracy is a bit of a scary ride.  Various articles…and scenarios. Do your OWN DUE DILIGENCE!,

ONE “Trucker Organization” aimed at tire safety…as well as worker safety says that if a truck tire is down more than 75%, the proper procedure is to remove and inspect and then, if no obvious damages to the tire, mount and reinflate….with a BIG CAVEAT.  The tire must be in a safety cage as it “may be prone” to “blowing”.  As an ex Safety Director, I can’t argue with that.

Next article was from a “trucker’s site” on how to safely “fix or replace” a flat tire….18 wheeler of course.  The caveat….if the tire has been deflated as in totally FLAT…same deal and bead separation….!!!  Then beware!!   They also say that the first 24 hours, above 46 DF, is critical.  After that….the  Inspection is mandatory…. They don’t get into the separation nor the hazards of “blow that sucker up and seat on the rim”…nor discussed safety cages….

Personally, I had a tire on a W-22 Chassis go down overnight or maybe a day or two longer.  The RV dealer had done some work and also replaced the cover.  He put on a USED valve extender….and it leaked…. So, it went down slowly.  Called CoachNet.  The guy came out.  Jacked it up.  Replaced the leaky extender.  There was a charge for something, so it was not free….but I drove it 2 plus years…20K.  No issues.  If was one of the “May Pop” Michelin 19.5’s…that I later learned were as flaky as the GY G-670 (?j that many of us got rid of early. I do NOT RECALL ANY BEAD SEPARATION….

SO….My thoughts….  Get it jacked up and blocked up….sooner the better.  The decision gets tricky from there.  Maybe call Toyo?  Odds are, lawyers have written the spiel….  Three new tires…. 

OR… find a shop with a mobile truck(s), preferably a Toyo dealer.  Get them involved quickly.  Personally, my Safety Director’s hat says to take off the wheels and have them caged….don’t know if the SERVICE truck has cages?  I was working at a school bus garage one summer and one of the mechanics was still recovering from a blow rim.  MAY have been the old “suicide” two part rims (memory fading. BUT, he did break his back….I’ve done too many investigations of things that never should have happened…and did…

What’s done is done…assuming that there was NO MISCHIEF….OTHERWISE….report it to authorities and see if your comprehensive insurance covers….

What does surprise me….and certainly not doubting your comments….the rear tire separating.  NOW…again…a novice comment.  If the rear was supported by the other three….and the rig was not crushing the tire as in the front….then that tire may be OK, but I’d also err on the safe side and get it inspected and then properly reinflated, per the cage method…

I ALSO KNOW…personally as well as many comments and such….truckers and such run “used tires” all the time.  Folks sell them and comment here…

Keep us posted on what happens so we all get a little more “educated”.  NOW I am GLAD I don’t partially remove or loosen my PP sensors…

 

 

[Frank McElroy]

1 hour ago, Bill R said:

Yes, I had been using these caps before I started leaving the sensors on.  Thanks Tom for the PP history and insight.  I'll ask about surveillance video tomorrow when they are open.

Thanks Mike - Steer tires may be in the near future.  Right now just want to get the coach rims off the ground.

Did not know that Ivan about the M144s.  Thanks, hoping all looks good and beads can seal without removing the wheels.

 

Frank - I have the Balance Masters, so no beads.  That makes the 3 at one time even more suspicious.  And I also will back off a few turns after the air stops to make sure.  Even many times remove all the way and then back on about 1 1/2 turns back.  So I am very confident that the PP sensor is not pushing the valve stem at all.

Hopefully I can get the Mobile Tire Mechanic out tomorrow and see how they look and do a soap test on the stems.  I will update this post as to what I find.

The mobile tech will likely use a tire air bead blaster to reseat the bead after the weight is off the front wheels.  However, if you are still going to run the tires, at least on the fronts you should have the inside inspected.

When I change tires, I use Murphy's tire mounting compound.  With a disposable glove, I smear a thin layer on the tire bead.  It has the consistency of Vaseline.  It not only makes tire mounting easy with two tire irons but it also has a tacky consistency and helps to quickly seal the tire bead onto the rim where other liquid tire bead soaps don't work nearly as well.  I found out about it because the Michelin Tire installation manual specifically recommended it.

[vito.a]

I suspect you did not unscrew the pressure sensors far enough.  

I agree with Frank.  Placing some Murphy's tire mounting compound on the beads will help.

This method is a bit controversial but works well.  First, station a fire extinguisher near the tire. 

Jack the axle up far enough to take the weight off the tire.  Push the tire onto the rear bead.  Spray some starting fluid into the inside of the tire.  About a 3-5 second spray.  Light the fluid with a long lighter and quickly pull the tire outward to help mount the front bead.  Remove the valve core and quickly air the tire up to pressure.  Replace the valve core and set proper pressure.    

You can review several YouTube videos on this procedure.  

Good luck!

Edited May 28 by vito.a

[Happycarz]

I’ve run Toyos on my coach, mounting them myself. The beads on the new tires rest against the rims with no air. Tire that have been in service are firm against the wheel. I used to rotate my tires myself, dismounting/mounting and never needed an air bottle nor lighter fluid. And, I wanted to try out the brake clean, carb spray, or starting fluid to see the action. Just the kid in me.
 

You won’t have a need for lighter fluid, unless you like to see it “pop” a bit. 
 

I have had a couple that I had to jiggled the wheel while the air hose was on the valve stem. They caught and aired up.  Again, never got to use the starting fluid. Plenty of interesting videos on YouTube, though. 

[TomV48]

8 hours ago, Georgia Mike said:

I would go ahead and get new steer tires being since they are 5 years old and had all the weight of the rim sitting on them. I would just air up the rear tire since it was supported by the other tire as long as it looks in good condition. I’m just overly cautious with steer tires trying to do everything possible to avoid a blow out. 

Ditto

 

[Bill R]

Update....went out today and jacked up and blocked the front.  It was a bit laborious as I had to dig down about 6 inches into the gravel to fit the bottle jack in.  Anyway, got the steer tires just off the ground and inspected both sides.  There was absolutely no signs of damage to the sidewalls or beads.  I think being on rubber mats and OSB plywood may have minimized possible cutting by the rims that could have occurred on concrete. 

After the inspection, I tried to put air in the tires to seat the beads, but that was not going to happen with my small 2 gallon compressor.  So I ended up calling the mobile tire mechanic, who for $90 came out and got them seated and aired up.  He used a tool I had never seen before called the Bead Bazooka.  Really cool.  He pressurized the Bead Bazooka from his compressor, placed it at the rim and bead, and then pulled the trigger to release a quick blast of compressed air.  Wow, that did the trick.  Did this for all 3 tires, and gone in 30 minutes.

I soaped the stems, and checked the tires, and did not find any leaks.  Put on the Valve-Loc stem caps and plan to go back tomorrow just to double check that the air pressure is holding.  I left the front on the blocks just in case so I don't have to do all the work to jack up again if for some reason the tires do deflate between now and tomorrow.  I don't expect that, but you never know.

BTW, the office was busy dealing with the high wind storm damage last night at some of there storage units, so no time to look at videos or talk about mischievous activity.

 

[jacwjames]

No ether & match?  

Glad you got them aired up.

 

In 2021 I installed the TST507 TPMS.  the sensors have replaceable batteries.  Didn't have one go dead but decided to change all 6 batteries a couple weeks ago.   My previous TPMS did not have replaceable batteries and the sensor were $$$$, >>> Never again, went with replaceable kind. 

[Bill R]

Back at the storage unit today and all 3 tires holding pressure.  Issue resolved, cause still unknown.   But, I am willing to admit possible operator error even though I go with the same SOP every time for 30 plus trips and never had this happen before with even 1 tire.    Thank you for everyone's input on this thread.