Entry Door Glass

[powersltc]

Ron P 

2004 Monaco Executive 

 

My entry door glass is foggy and discolored.   I would like to replace it. 

 

Any ideas/suggestions on glass parts, location,  installation, etc.

I am located on the east coast. 

 

Ron Powers 

2004 Monaco Executive 

[Bobsteid]

We have a guy here in Massachusetts that does a great job cleaning and revealing

Cost per hour of how long to clean

I had drivers side and door done for $700

[Paul J A]

4 hours ago, powersltc said:

Ron P 

2004 Monaco Executive 

 

My entry door glass is foggy and discolored.   I would like to replace it. 

 

Any ideas/suggestions on glass parts, location,  installation, etc.

I am located on the east coast. 

 

Ron Powers 

2004 Monaco Executive 

A good local glass shop can do that. Take a picture and measurements to them. 

Paul A

[powersltc]

Thanks. 

[Dr4Film]

I plan on using RV Glass Solutions/Coach Glass in Lakeland Florida to have four different windows done all at the same time. I got an estimate from them earlier in the year but when the Covid-19 virus took over I had postponed the appointment until sometime net winter while we are back in Florida.

[powersltc]

Did they give you a quote for the door glass?

[Dr4Film]

2 hours ago, powersltc said:

Did they give you a quote for the door glass?

Yes, it was $245 for the Laminated Glass in a tinted color or clear. Then there is a labor charge for cutting plus shipping to Florida.

Since I was getting an estimate for a total of four windows it is difficult to figure out what those additional charges would be. You would have to call them directly in Oregon to get a side-glass quote for your specific entry door. Not all entry door glass panel are the same.

BTW, the glass is warranted for lifetime to never fog again as it is double pane laminated.

[powersltc]

Thanks. 

[Ivan K]

If the inside of the original glass can still be polished out, it can easily be resealed and you keep the original tint shade without throwing a ton of money at it. Just saying...

[Jeff H]

10 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

Yes, it was $245 for the Laminated Glass in a tinted color or clear. Then there is a labor charge for cutting plus shipping to Florida.

Since I was getting an estimate for a total of four windows it is difficult to figure out what those additional charges would be. You would have to call them directly in Oregon to get a side-glass quote for your specific entry door. Not all entry door glass panel are the same.

BTW, the glass is warranted for lifetime to never fog again as it is double pane laminated.

 

Technically it is single pane laminated.  That is why they offer a lifetime warranty.  There is no seal to fail.  Laminated glass is 2 lites of (usually 3mm) glass laminated with a plastic interlayer so there is no seal to fail.  There is also no insulating value if that is a concern.  I know my windshield fogs and condensates a lot more than the side windows in cool spring/fall Canadian weather. 

As someone else mentioned  you can remove the glass, cut the panes apart, clean them (you might need CLR),bring them to a local glass shop to be resealed.  It would probably be best to call around tho see if any make sealed units.  If you brought it to me to do I would charge less than $100.00CAD.  If you cannot find someone to seal it, you can do it your self with automotive urethane or a good neutral cure commercial silicone.  The silicone will take days if not weeks to properly cure.  The trick will be the spacer 1/8" spacer is not very popular.  You might have to use a glazing tape as a spacer.

The last option is to take it out and have a new one made probably less than $400.00CAD

 

[powersltc]

Thanks.

[Ivan K]

For anyone potentially considering DIY resealing of their existing glass panes, here is what worked for me. All that was really needed is a razor blade, polisher, spacer tape and caulk gun (with optional tip adapter) for the sealant. I have done both front side windows (3 piece driver and door) and a sliding window some 3 years back and have no problems to date, which is not always true even with professional repairs. The spacer tape already contains desiccant and has sealing properties on its own with the tube of sealer finishing it off. Easy and it was actually fun to see the difference it made.

[Jeff H]

Well Done Ivan.   The key is getting the inside surfaces perfectly clean and then not getting fingerprints on it.  I work with glass and we have had sealed units with stickers stuck to the inside, finger prints, scratches, even flies.

[Scotty Hutto]

On 8/20/2020 at 7:54 PM, Ivan K said:

If the inside of the original glass can still be polished out, it can easily be resealed and you keep the original tint shade without throwing a ton of money at it. Just saying...

Ivan,

I'm pretty handy, but haven’t worked with glass. Are you saying this is something I can DIY, or something I should leave to a professional to do?

[pwhittle]

15 minutes ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Ivan,

I'm pretty handy, but haven’t worked with glass. Are you saying this is something I can DIY, or something I should leave to a professional to do?

Scotty,

We don’t need “professionals”.

Paul

[Ivan K]

13 minutes ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Ivan,

I'm pretty handy, but haven’t worked with glass. Are you saying this is something I can DIY, or something I should leave to a professional to do?

Scotty, if you can manage removing the window frame then you can do the rest. Everything that I needed came from the place below, you just probably should measure the spacer size on a sliding part of one of your windows where you have access to it.

https://www.dkhardware.com/black-3-16-wide-x-3-16-thick-edgetech-super-spacer-66-roll-ss31666bl-product-77197.html

[Tom Cherry]

14 hours ago, Ivan K said:

Scotty, if you can manage removing the window frame then you can do the rest. Everything that I needed came from the place below, you just probably should measure the spacer size on a sliding part of one of your windows where you have access to it.

https://www.dkhardware.com/black-3-16-wide-x-3-16-thick-edgetech-super-spacer-66-roll-ss31666bl-product-77197.html

There is another thread on something similar to this.  FWIW....here are some facts.  i spent a LOT of time talking to the ex Plant Manager of Atwood Glass and she told me what went on in the Glass Company as well as the Atwood operation.

• the glass is tempered and tinted.  If you replace it, then you have to find a piece of glass and have it specially cut and ground and then tempered (don't know about the tinting), otherwise a REPLACEMENT piece MAY look different.
• RV Glass and all the other guys have a special thickness of Laminated Windshield Glass.  They cut and grind and fit and reassemble.  You MAY see a difference in the appearance...  that is a personal call.
• If you go that way , the Laminated Windshield glass (two ply with laminate inside), will NOT have any future fogging issues.
• If you remove the glass, then any good glass shop can pull apart the glass.  The Atwood Glass is just that.  Tempered and tinted.  They fixture it up, put in a spacer or somehow (maybe vacuum clamps?) keep it separated.  This is NOT like the LOW E glass in your house where a vacuum is pulled and an inert gas (argon, nitrogen, etc) MAY have been used.  They just run a bead of a special silicone around it.  Don't know if they have a vacuum tank or a water tester that checks the seal or the integrity of the seal.
• THEN....it is shipped to folks like Atwood (who also do replacements) and they reinstall that pane in the original frame.
• YES....if you pull it apart....then remove any water or mineral deposits and then clean (polish) and such, then you have the same thing (hopefully cleaned and not streaked or spotted) and then you just put in some spacers or do opposite sides with spacers in the other two.  Once set up,, then you run a bead of a good RTV Silicone sealer.  Then you do the other.  The trick is to get them blended.
• Obviously a good glass shop know how to do that.  I would go that way if one of mine fogs some.  you need to do it EARLY as the longer it stays fogged, the more apt to have hard water stains....yes... I KNOW it is condensation and not tap water...but it does FOG and Condense and streak...er.
• The glass shop or you also need to measure the original thickness of the assembled (bonded and sealed pane) and duplicate that.  if NOT and it is out of spec, there is a HIGH DEGREE (100%) probability that when reassembled or being reinstalled, the compression or the stress from an out of spec thickness will shatter at least ONE of the panes.  Ask my how many times a friend who ran a glass shop tried to put in a SINGLE pane of tempered glass in my boat.
• Put it back together and then follow the instructions (you need a double stick special tape) and reinstall a window.  RV shops do that all day long for refrigerator installs...

Hope this helps....there has been some myths about such...so I spent a LOT of time getting info on the process (as an old Manufacturing Engineer tends to do), so that I could make the above comments....

[miacasa_2000]

Ivan

Would you be interested with sharing more detailed instructions on how you did it and what you used for polishing ? How you keep moisture out ? Make the black outer seal ? In 2013 I replaced like you my driver side and my door glass. I called Atwood they had all the specs on file and I had them just send the glass. So I have experience in taking the windows out and separating from frame etc. My new door glass started to fog in a year and drivers slide window shortly after that. They are almost to the point that made me want to do it the first time but after such a short life of clear glass I've been reluctant but would attempt it myself. Only drawback I see is if the glass won't polish out I might be stuck putting the fogged one back in.

[Dr4Film]

11 minutes ago, miacasa_2000 said:

 Only drawback I see is if the glass won't polish out I might be stuck putting the fogged one back in.

That is true. A lot of times the glass has been etched with the moisture which two of the four windows needing repair are that I have so for me it's far easier to have it professionally done by RV Glass Solutions.

[Jeff H]

46 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

There is another thread on something similar to this.  FWIW....here are some facts.  i spent a LOT of time talking to the ex Plant Manager of Atwood Glass and she told me what went on in the Glass Company as well as the Atwood operation.

• the glass is tempered and tinted.  If you replace it, then you have to find a piece of glass and have it specially cut and ground and then tempered (don't know about the tinting), otherwise a REPLACEMENT piece MAY look different.
• RV Glass and all the other guys have a special thickness of Laminated Windshield Glass.  They cut and grind and fit and reassemble.  You MAY see a difference in the appearance...  that is a personal call.
• If you go that way , the Laminated Windshield glass (two ply with laminate inside), will NOT have any future fogging issues.
• If you remove the glass, then any good glass shop can pull apart the glass.  The Atwood Glass is just that.  Tempered and tinted.  They fixture it up, put in a spacer or somehow (maybe vacuum clamps?) keep it separated.  This is NOT like the LOW E glass in your house where a vacuum is pulled and an inert gas (argon, nitrogen, etc) MAY have been used.  They just run a bead of a special silicone around it.  Don't know if they have a vacuum tank or a water tester that checks the seal or the integrity of the seal.
• THEN....it is shipped to folks like Atwood (who also do replacements) and they reinstall that pane in the original frame.
• YES....if you pull it apart....then remove any water or mineral deposits and then clean (polish) and such, then you have the same thing (hopefully cleaned and not streaked or spotted) and then you just put in some spacers or do opposite sides with spacers in the other two.  Once set up, you then do the other.
• The glass shop or you also need to measure the original thickness of the assembled (bonded and sealed pane) and duplicate that.  if NOT and it is out of spec, there is a HIGH DEGREE (100%) probability that when reassembled or being reinstalled, the compression or the stress from an out of spec thickness will shatter at least ONE of the panes.  Ask my how many times a friend who ran a glass shop tried to put in a SINGLE pane of tempered glass in my boat.
• Put it back together and then follow the instructions (you need a double stick special tape) and reinstall a window.  RV shops do that all day long for refrigerator installs...

Hope this helps....there has been some myths about such...so I spent a LOT of time getting info on the process (as an old Manufacturing Engineer tends to do), so that I could make the above comments....

Hi Tom,

Since you are interested in getting it right, which you MOSTLY have, I will make a couple corrections.  I own a company that fabricates and installs commercial windows.  We also make sealed units. 

The bronze or grey tint in our RVs is pretty STANDARD across the industry.  any difference comes from the THICKNESS of the glass (More tinted glass means darker window)

You are CORRECT that tempered glass is cut and then tempered so We would have to send a pattern away to a tempering plant in order for a specific shape to be made.

There there is NO vacuum pulled on the glass.  If Argon or Krypton is used it is pumped at the bottom of the unit and air is pumped out a similar rate at the top of the unit until a specified % of Argon is sensed coming out.  A vacuum will cause the 2 lites to touch which is considered a WARRANTY FAILURE as you lose all the insulating value where the glass is touching.  If anything the glass is slightly pressurized in relation to the atmosphere it is assembled in.  I have received sealed units built at higher elevations with breather tubes he had to pinch off so that the elevation difference did not cause them to collapse.

You are CORRECT, cleaning and matching the OD are CRITICAL

[Tom Cherry]

1 minute ago, Dr4Film said:

That is true. A lot of times the glass has been etched with the moisture which two of the four windows needing repair are that I have so for me it's far easier to have it professionally done by RV Glass Solutions.

Richard....To clarify....

There are TWO methods of fixing the window.  One if to do the teardown, use your old glass, clean it and then reseal the panes and reassemble.  Most glass shops can do that.  I talked to Atwood about that.  Read my comments above as there have  been many opinions posted and this was the facts from Atwood on how our original windows were made and also dispells the "inert and vacuum tested" glass...

Is THAT what was quoted to you?

The SECOND option that the RV Glass (memory) gave me in Oregon was to REPLACE the panes with the same thickness of Laminated Windshield glass.  That will never FOG....not will it shatter (it might crack) like the original tempered glass.

Based on what the Oregon folks told me....you do LOSE a little R (or insulation value) when you replace the two pieces of tempered glass with a sealed air gap, with a single thickness of laminated Windshield glass.  it was in the 10 - 25% range and the "estimates" vary by vendor.  BUT, it will not be the same OEM glass that you have now and it will look different....but looks sometimes get Trumped by functionality...

Thanks for responding which way they were going to do it...

[Dr4Film]

Tom, the estimate that I got from RV Glass Solutions was for their laminated glass as I don't want to go through this again ever! I like repairing stuff once and forget it.

Here are two links to their side glass replacement where they offer 5 different colors.

https://www.rvglassexperts.com/side_windows.html

https://www.rvglassexperts.com/blog/finally-a-lifetime-solution-to-foggy-side-windows/

Edited August 22, 2020 by Dr4Film

[Tom Cherry]

6 minutes ago, Jeff H said:

Hi Tom,

Since you are interested in getting it right, which you MOSTLY have, I will make a couple corrections.  I own a company that fabricates and installs commercial windows.  We also make sealed units. 

The bronze or grey tint in our RVs is pretty STANDARD across the industry.  any difference comes from the THICKNESS of the glass (More tinted glass means darker window)

You are CORRECT that tempered glass is cut and then tempered so We would have to send a pattern away to a tempering plant in order for a specific shape to be made.

There there is NO vacuum pulled on the glass.  If Argon or Krypton is used it is pumped at the bottom of the unit and air is pumped out a similar rate at the top of the unit until a specified % of Argon is sensed coming out.  A vacuum will cause the 2 lites to touch which is considered a WARRANTY FAILURE as you lose all the insulating value where the glass is touching.  If anything the glass is slightly pressurized in relation to the atmosphere it is assembled in.  I have received sealed units built at higher elevations with breather tubes he had to pinch off so that the elevation difference did not cause them to collapse.

You are CORRECT, cleaning and matching the OD are CRITICAL

Thanks for the quote and the clarification.  I probably mistated or used the wrong terminology.  

For YEARS, there was the "thought" that Atwood used an inert gas and that was the secret and you got a better seal (I guess vacuum was the wrong word).  However, the lady told me that their glass supplier just "ran a bead around the two panes" and did nothing special to the interior or did not use any gas or such...just plain air...  I have done or set up or been involved in a lot of testing and such.  I had it in mind that a vacuum was applied and an inert gas was injected.  What you describe is the high tech way with instruementation.  I can remember when we had to inject a sealant or impregnate something or have a good seal that we pulled a low vacuum and then injected a solution or whatever and then sealed it up.  Thanks for the detailed info.

That misconception or the need for a "special gas injecting" procedure to match the OEM specs was incorrect....so that was my intent to burst that myth bubble....

Tom...

7 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Tom, the estimate that I got from RV Glass Solutions was for their laminated glass as I don't want to go through this again ever! I like repairing stuff once and forget it.

Here are two links to their side glass replacement where they offer 5 different colors.

https://www.rvglassexperts.com/side_windows.html

https://www.rvglassexperts.com/blog/finally-a-lifetime-solution-to-foggy-side-windows/

Don't argue with your logic.  When I had the shattered window and I first called RV Glass Solutions in Coburg.  I was south of Seattle and could have driven down there.  They were booked solid.  I asked about the tint and color.  The rep said....NOPE...it will be different from your OEM Atwood. 

I chose to order the OEM Atwood so that it would match.  Then, the day that I left, they called....come on down...we can work you in.  That would not work as my son was flying in to Spokane and we had a tight schedule.  I could have cancelled the Atwood order...but left it alone and have no regrets.  NOW, if they have tinted laminate that will blend and match, then that is a different scenario.

I wonder if they have a "stock Atwood" tint.  The PM of Atwood did not say if there was a code...other than, i THINK....tinted.  I don't think that they had custom tints for anyone or Monaco....

[Jeff H]

2 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Thanks for the quote and the clarification.  I probably mistated or used the wrong terminology.  

For YEARS, there was the "thought" that Atwood used an inert gas and that was the secret and you got a better seal (I guess vacuum was the wrong word).  However, the lady told me that their glass supplier just "ran a bead around the two panes" and did nothing special to the interior or did not use any gas or such...just plain air...  I have done or set up or been involved in a lot of testing and such.  I had it in mind that a vacuum was applied and an inert gas was injected.  What you describe is the high tech way with instruementation.  I can remember when we had to inject a sealant or impregnate something or have a good seal that we pulled a low vacuum and then injected a solution or whatever and then sealed it up.  Thanks for the detailed info.

That misconception or the need for a "special gas injecting" procedure to match the OEM specs was incorrect....so that was my intent to burst that myth bubble....

Tom...

The "balanced" method keeps the pressure on the glass as it is filled.  Calibrating the machines can be interesting as too quick a fill rate compared to the evacuation rate will cause the sealed unit to "balloon" and possibly burst. 

Krypton and Argon are a whole other debate as the sealers used are slightly permeable, so in a few years the airspace is just air.

 

[Dr4Film]

15 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Based on what the Oregon folks told me....you do LOSE a little R (or insulation value) when you replace the two pieces of tempered glass with a sealed air gap, with a single thickness of laminated Windshield glass.  it was in the 10 - 25% range and the "estimates" vary by vendor.  BUT, it will not be the same OEM glass that you have now and it will look different....but looks sometimes get Trumped by functionality...

Thanks for responding which way they were going to do it...

Tom, here is a link describing the differences between Insulated vs. Laminated Glass. For me, the small reduction in r-valve of the laminated glass outweighs the lifetime warranty of never having to deal with removing it again, ever. Also the laminated glass is as efficient for sound proofing as the two pane separated glass.

https://www.hunker.com/13401907/insulated-vs-laminated-glass