Kongsberg CCM Alternative Restoration & Replacement - 2009 Signature

[powerpro2000]

THE PHOENIX HAS RISEN!

I feel like I am making a baby announcement, but I am excited to announce that Brett's (and now my) Signature has been given another chance at life.  Thanks to Franks hard work, extensive expertise, tenacity and generosity the Kongsburg system has been brought back to life again. EVERYTHING works as it should. I told Frank I would have been happy just to get the headlights working again but frankly I never expected to have the entire system back in operational condition without writing huge checks to the Candy Shop. I cannot thank Frank and all the other Monacoers who kindly gave their support in achieving this lofty goal. Thank you to all. The best result is not that my Phoenix (her new name) is made whole again it is that the lessons learned in this undertaking will benefit many more owners by continuing to enjoy their significant investment and undoubtably from its enhanced resale value.

Thank you all again!

JIm

[Tom Cherry]

22 minutes ago, powerpro2000 said:

THE PHOENIX HAS RISEN!

I feel like I am making a baby announcement, but I am excited to announce that Brett's (and now my) Signature has been given another chance at life.  Thanks to Franks hard work, extensive expertise, tenacity and generosity the Kongsburg system has been brought back to life again. EVERYTHING works as it should. I told Frank I would have been happy just to get the headlights working again but frankly I never expected to have the entire system back in operational condition without writing huge checks to the Candy Shop. I cannot thank Frank and all the other Monacoers who kindly gave their support in achieving this lofty goal. Thank you to all. The best result is not that my Phoenix (her new name) is made whole again it is that the lessons learned in this undertaking will benefit many more owners by continuing to enjoy their significant investment and undoubtably from its enhanced resale value.

Thank you all again!

JIm

Jim, I KNOW how much work and thought and pure stubborness that Frank put in.  You probably do...maybe one or two others.  Your post, for me, personally, watching from the sidelines and talking to Frank and asking questions just to learn.....MADE MY DAY.  I can ALSO speak for the entire STAFF as David Pratt and I have been communicating.  WE are all estatic.  FINALLY, as David said, after 10 years (He quit or gave up on the CCM's then), THERE is a solution.  From being a member of the group, as well as also being a moderator and a great, I HOPE, friend of Frank's I am as excited and pleased as you are about your "BIRTH or REBIRTH" Announcement.  I take pride in being on the staff and also pride in what the Forum has become and how it helps our Monaco Owner's community....but conquering the CCM or Kongsberg problem....to me, it is like a famous researcher finding a vaccine for a plague.  YES, that is a bit over the top....but I don't know how many folks know that if the CCM/Kongsberg fails...as Brett's did....then part that rascal out....it ain't gonna be fixable.

GREAT NEWS....Thanks for Sharing and also for telling the group of the magnitude of the accomplishment that Frank has made....

[Brett63]

2 hours ago, powerpro2000 said:

THE PHOENIX HAS RISEN!

I feel like I am making a baby announcement, but I am excited to announce that Brett's (and now my) Signature has been given another chance at life.  Thanks to Franks hard work, extensive expertise, tenacity and generosity the Kongsburg system has been brought back to life again. EVERYTHING works as it should. I told Frank I would have been happy just to get the headlights working again but frankly I never expected to have the entire system back in operational condition without writing huge checks to the Candy Shop. I cannot thank Frank and all the other Monacoers who kindly gave their support in achieving this lofty goal. Thank you to all. The best result is not that my Phoenix (her new name) is made whole again it is that the lessons learned in this undertaking will benefit many more owners by continuing to enjoy their significant investment and undoubtably from its enhanced resale value.

Thank you all again!

JIm

Jim I thank you for having the vision, hope and checkbook to take on this project. I was convinced Frank would eventually get it fixed. I just was not able to hang on long enough. I am happy that not only getting the issues fixed, but that I was able to re-outfit with the monaco original furniture. I don't believe the ole girl could have a better story or a better owner. I just hope that you are ble to enjoy her more than I did. The irony to this is that once my wife and i bought this coach I had some major health issues and my wife almost lost me twice, so we actually were able to put very few miles on and enjoy our new home bfoe the tradgety that brings us to where we are today. We loved that coach and were so proud to actually own what we considered one of the finest coaches ever made (except for the Kongsberg system). Frank knows how much I appreciate him and how many hours we sent working on this before I was forced to give in. Another funny side bit is that during the Monaco rally in Tampa just a couple months prior to the lightening I had actually started working on how to fix the system, or to make a total replacement and spent many hours on that. Least be known to me I would eventually turn that into how to repair mine...lol Anyway thank you to all for the hard work and dilligence and I look forward to reading about the miles and smiles.

lastly, thank you to the Monacoers staff for not removing me from the group as I no longer have a Monaco and i hope that now this saga is complete they will allow me to remain on here.

[dl_racing427]

Thanks to Frank, Tom, David Pratt, Brett and all the rest who worked on this.
The value of this knowledge is priceless.  It will certainly save a lot of VERY nice coaches from the scrap heap, as well as making those coaches which would have been shunned, back into viable purchase considerations.
 

[Tom Cherry]

14 minutes ago, dl_racing427 said:

Thanks to Frank, Tom, David Pratt, Brett and all the rest who worked on this.
The value of this knowledge is priceless.  It will certainly save a lot of VERY nice coaches from the scrap heap, as well as making those coaches which would have been shunned, back into viable purchase considerations.
 

I only was a sidewalk Superintendent.  Occassionally, although probably not needed, was a "Cheerleader"...as Frank works relentlessly.  My comments were not self serving. Frank did take time out to "dumb down" what he was doing.  It was my curiosity and wanting to learn.  BUT, knowing Frank as I do, I KNEW and never had any doubts, that he would perserve and if ANYONE could solve the puzzle...as in getting a workable solution, he as the ONE...

Thanks for the shout out....but this is Frank's VICTORY lap and I still cheer....and take pride in what we have here and especially the folks smarter than me....and what we have accomplished....but TRUTHFULLY, and I am speaking for David Pratt.  I personally never even entertained the idea that a "Lightning hit" MH would end up as a dying patient....and be revived and totally cured.  My DW and I are Binge Watching House MD.  What Frank did, assuming he doesn't mind the personality comparison, could have been a script right out of that series.

YES...I have a strange outlook....in case no one has noticed that....

LOL...and YES, we all have a LOT to cheer about...and be proud to just be a small part of this group...

[LakeBob]

2 hours ago, dl_racing427 said:

Thanks to Frank, Tom, David Pratt, Brett and all the rest who worked on this.
The value of this knowledge is priceless.  It will certainly save a lot of VERY nice coaches from the scrap heap, as well as making those coaches which would have been shunned, back into viable purchase considerations.
 

Well said David! As a Kongsberg coach owner( with all systems working!) I can rest a little easier. 
Frank is a jewel and we’re soooo lucky to have his support! 
Now, back to that leaking plastic pipe elbow on my supply line for the hand shower…….

[Frank McElroy]

On 10/26/2023 at 6:23 PM, powerpro2000 said:

THE PHOENIX HAS RISEN!

I feel like I am making a baby announcement, but I am excited to announce that Brett's (and now my) Signature has been given another chance at life.  Thanks to Franks hard work, extensive expertise, tenacity and generosity the Kongsburg system has been brought back to life again. EVERYTHING works as it should. I told Frank I would have been happy just to get the headlights working again but frankly I never expected to have the entire system back in operational condition without writing huge checks to the Candy Shop. I cannot thank Frank and all the other Monacoers who kindly gave their support in achieving this lofty goal. Thank you to all. The best result is not that my Phoenix (her new name) is made whole again it is that the lessons learned in this undertaking will benefit many more owners by continuing to enjoy their significant investment and undoubtably from its enhanced resale value.

Thank you all again!

JIm

I'm very pleased that this all worked out.

For others wondering, the project basically started about 4 months ago when Jim sent me his front, old rear, and replacement rear CCMs and all the switch modules for testing.  I was able to confirm that the original front CCM was good but the old rear CCM had failed.  The replacement rear CCM was good.  So I then returned the good front and rear CCM modules.  With the smart wheel functions working, the coach was then drivable during the day.

Next up was a decision on whether to go down the path of having a touch screen for all the dash switches or figure out how to repair the switch modules.  Everyone I talked with really wanted the original switch modules and fix any broken ones as plug and play.

So, the task at hand was to draw up a circuit diagram from the double sided printed circuit board inside the master and slave switch modules.  These boards had over 100 components on them.  Once they were all identified, I was able to replace the defective components including the 28 pin programmable integrated micro circuit.  The software program was also corrupted.  That's why I need working loaner modules.

It's always great to have a success story.  This will help others going forward.

[Guest Ray Davis]

2 minutes ago, LakeBob said:

Well said David! As a Kongsberg coach owner( with all systems working!) I can rest a little easier. 
Frank is a jewel and we’re soooo lucky to have his support! 
Now, back to that leaking plastic pipe elbow on my supply line for the hand shower…….

Yes sir, well said.   Maybe we need to post a guard for Frank, to protect him, and so he can't get away.  

Kongsberg is a foreign company, they might kidnap Frank to fix all their broken stuff.   LOL

Frank should feel very proud of what he has accomplished.  I feel proud of him.

6 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

So, the task at hand was to draw up a circuit diagram from the double sided printer circuit board inside the master and slave switch modules.  These boards had over 100 components on them.  Once they were all identified, I was able to replace the defective components including the 28 pin programmable integrated micro circuit.  The program was also corrupted.  That's why I need working loaner modules.

Frank has made it seem so easy I'm gonna start fixing them myself,  NOT

Now, back to the leak, I think one of the hardest things I have fixed is the leak behind my shower.  Really, it was close to impossible to get at.

[Brett63]

9 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

Yes sir, well said.   Maybe we need to post a guard for Frank, to protect him, and so he can't get away.  

Kongsberg is a foreign company, they might kidnap Frank to fix all their broken stuff.   LOL

Frank should feel very proud of what he has accomplished.  I feel proud of him.

Frank has made it seem so easy I'm gonna start fixing them myself,  NOT

Now, back to the leak, I think one of the hardest things I have fixed is the leak behind my shower.  Really, it was close to impossible to get at.

Ray, I have talked to one of the design engineers for this system at Kongsburg several times. Trust me they want nothing to do with it....lol 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

I'm very pleased that this all worked out.

For others wondering, the projected basically started about 4 months ago when Jim sent me his front, old rear, and replacement rear CCMs and all the switch modules for testing.  I was able to confirm that the original front CCM was good but the rear CCM had failed.  The replacement rear CCM was good.  So I then returned the good front and rear CCM modules.  With the smart wheel functions working, the coach was then drivable during the day.

Next up was a decision on whether to go down the path of having a touch screen for all the dash switches or figure out how to repair the switch modules.  Everyone I talked with really wanted the original switch modules and fix any broken ones as plug and play.

So, the task at hand was to draw up a circuit diagram from the double sided printed circuit board inside the master and slave switch modules.  These boards had over 100 components on them.  Once they were all identified, I was able to replace the defective components including the 28 pin programmable integrated micro circuit.  The program was also corrupted.  That's why I need working loaner modules.

It's always great to have a success story.  This will help others going forward.

Frank,

Maybe you need to get this framed and put it over your "Experimental CCM Setup".  Rah Rah Rah....Sis Boom Bah....  LOL..  This just popped up somewhere and seems so "fitting"....  
 

 

[Ivylog]

Just being able to replace that 49 pin chip is impressive, much less figuring out what it does, or should do.

[Mike Barrett]

So Frank is this something thay can be put together prospectively?  Get a set and keep them bixed up and safe?

[det944]

I've been following this saga from the beginning and am amazed at the skill set of the members of this group. Frank's ability to reverse engineer the systems on this coach is a great accomplishment. Congratulations to  all that assisted, amazing work!

[Tom Cherry]

19 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

I'm very pleased that this all worked out.

For others wondering, the projected basically started about 4 months ago when Jim sent me his front, old rear, and replacement rear CCMs and all the switch modules for testing.  I was able to confirm that the original front CCM was good but the rear CCM had failed.  The replacement rear CCM was good.  So I then returned the good front and rear CCM modules.  With the smart wheel functions working, the coach was then drivable during the day.

Next up was a decision on whether to go down the path of having a touch screen for all the dash switches or figure out how to repair the switch modules.  Everyone I talked with really wanted the original switch modules and fix any broken ones as plug and play.

So, the task at hand was to draw up a circuit diagram from the double sided printed circuit board inside the master and slave switch modules.  These boards had over 100 components on them.  Once they were all identified, I was able to replace the defective components including the 28 pin programmable integrated micro circuit.  The program was also corrupted.  That's why I need working loaner modules.

It's always great to have a success story.  This will help others going forward.

For those not familiar with SMD (Surface Mounted Devices), blow up the picture.  There are 7 pins on each side.  Thus 28.  A hot air soldering device is needed to remove it.  Fortunately, there are precision index marks on the board.  Then the 28 contacts on the board have to be desoldered and cleaned.  Then thin bead of soldering paste is applied to each contact.  Put the new chip on the board and position it.  Then, solder back with a precise, time and temperature ramp up.  

Really quite simple….Oh yeah….the contact is 1 mm (0.039” Long.  Width is 0.57 mm (0.022”).  The gap or spacing between each contact is whopping  0.2 mm (0.008”).  BTW….a human hair is supposedly 0.001” in diameter.

Childsplay of course.  I HOPE everyone understands the sarcasm about this being a simple thing to do……

Forgot to mention that the bead of soldering pasted probably was around 0.25 mm (0.010”)….this is the only number that I guessed at as I was privy to the details of the removal and replacement.

Most Swiss watchmakers would bow to a person able to just remove and replace….but to know HOW to read, copy and then reflash or program the new chip…..UNBELIEVABLE.

That is why I’ve been in awe over the last few months and would get texts with a brief update or a picture….

YES….it is something that is beyond belief…..

[dl_racing427]

20 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Frank,

Maybe you need to get this framed and put it over your "Experimental CCM Setup".  Rah Rah Rah....Sis Boom Bah....  LOL..  This just popped up somewhere and seems so "fitting"....  
 

 

I don't know, that's a lot of rust to fix. 🤣

4 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

For those not familiar with SMD (Surface Mounted Devices), blow up the picture.  There are 7 pins on each side.  Thus 28.  A hot air soldering device is needed to remove it.  Fortunately, there are precision index marks on the board.  Then the 28 contacts on the board have to be desoldered and cleaned.  Then thin bead of soldering paste is applied to each contact.  Put the new chip on the board and position it.  Then, solder back with a precise, time and temperature ramp up.  

Really quite simple….Oh yeah….the contact is 1 mm (0.039” Long.  Width is 0.57 mm (0.022”).  The gap or spacing between each contact is whopping  0.2 mm (0.008”).  BTW….a human hair is supposedly 0.001” in diameter.

Childsplay of course.  I HOPE everyone understands the sarcasm about this being a simple thing to do……

Forgot to mention that the bead of soldering pasted probably was around 0.25 mm (0.010”)….this is the only number that I guessed at as I was privy to the details of the removal and replacement.

Most Swiss watchmakers would bow to a person able to just remove and replace….but to know HOW to read, copy and then reflash or program the new chip…..UNBELIEVABLE.

That is why I’ve been in awe over the last few months and would get texts with a brief update or a picture….

YES….it is something that is beyond belief…..

Back when I worked in engineering at GE, I regularly replaced SMD parts.  Discreet components I'd do with a soldering iron and solder braid.
The IC's I used a hot air station.  It was equipped with a stereo microscope to aid in alignment.

I'll never forget the day when I was changing nozzles, I removed the hot one ~900 degrees f, with pliers and set it on the rack, then immediately reached up and grabbed the SAME HOT nozzle.  YEOW!!!
I ran to the water fountain to cool it off, but I still ended up with white, charred skin on my thumb and a couple fingers. 😭

[Frank McElroy]

47 minutes ago, dl_racing427 said:

I don't know, that's a lot of rust to fix. 🤣

Back when I worked in engineering at GE, I regularly replaced SMD parts.  Discreet components I'd do with a soldering iron and solder braid.
The IC's I used a hot air station.  It was equipped with a stereo microscope to aid in alignment.

I'll never forget the day when I was changing nozzles, I removed the hot one ~900 degrees f, with pliers and set it on the rack, then immediately reached up and grabbed the SAME HOT nozzle.  YEOW!!!
I ran to the water fountain to cool it off, but I still ended up with white, charred skin on my thumb and a couple fingers. 😭

Ouch - luckily my hot air soldering station has a tip holder on the side where you can change hot tips without ever touching them.

[dl_racing427]

52 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

Ouch - luckily my hot air soldering station has a tip holder on the side where you can change hot tips without ever touching them.

This was a larger semi-automatic station.  It had nozzles that held the chip with vacuum, while flowing hot air around the entire perimeter simultaneously.  It had a knob to lift and lower the nozzle onto the board.
I'm sure it cost a pretty penny.

That's a nice looking station though.  It would be nice to have at home.  How much did it cost?

[Frank McElroy]

1 hour ago, dl_racing427 said:

This was a larger semi-automatic station.  It had nozzles that held the chip with vacuum, while flowing hot air around the entire perimeter simultaneously.  It had a knob to lift and lower the nozzle onto the board.
I'm sure it cost a pretty penny.

That's a nice looking station though.  It would be nice to have at home.  How much did it cost?

Bought about a year ago - $230.  Works well.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B08RCBPGSY?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_title

[bryan browne]

Congratulations on this project. I have followed from the beginning and have been amazed at each achievement you all have championed. This is way over my expertised but I have lived, cheered and read the techinicals thru your success. You all are so humble at this huge monster problem you have accomplished.

I thank you for your dedication and the time you devoted to this. There is no mountain to high with all the knowledge that has been applied. Thanks again. Bryan

[Frank McElroy]

I want to thank all those following this project for their kudos and kind words of encouragement. 

Attached is an updated PDF file to the one previously posted. 

I know - it's very technical but it will help those geeks out there know what was done to repair a Chassis multiplex coach struck by lightning.

Eaton E30 module repair Update.pdf

[BuddyL]

good afternoon

i am new  to all this

need help

2009 monaco bishop

wipers and cruise control not working

please help

[Frank McElroy]

7 hours ago, BuddyL said:

good afternoon

i am new  to all this

need help

2009 monaco bishop

wipers and cruise control not working

please help

This is a well known problem and there is a documented easy fix.  Do a search on the site and you will find a solution.  Here is a link and there is also a how to video in the download files.  Welcome to the forum.

 

[BuddyL]

good morning mr frank

where can i find the download files

 

 

[MHRookie]

21 hours ago, BuddyL said:

good morning mr frank

where can i find the download files

 

 

Buddy,

     Log in to site, upper right corner click the 3 lines.  Find the “browse” link & click it.  Next page will show “downloads”… then you can look for what Frank mentioned.

[Tom Cherry]

21 hours ago, BuddyL said:

good morning mr frank

where can i find the download files

 

 

Frank embedded a link.  Click on it.

Do a SEARCH.  Here is HOW.  Go to the SEARCH BOX.  Put in CCM.  Then click on EVERYWHERE.  Select Topics.  That will show you EVERY topic post or response that has the word CCM in it.  LOTS of good info for someone that has a CCM chassis and wants to learn.

NEXT....go back to SEARCH.  Put in CCM. Then on Everywhere, select FILES.  There are THREE files (actually 2) out there.

Here is a link that you can click on.  You click on the TITLE or use the DOWNLOAD Symbol in the UPPER RIGHT of each title.  Funky little symbol...ROUND Gray Dot with a DOWN arrow in it.  Either way works....