Wiring Harness burned - please help!

[JESPHDUSA]

25 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Not sure what kind of resources Detroit Diesel can provide but Cummins has the Quickserve site which owners can access that provides info on maintenance, troubleshooting, parts etc.  On the quickserve site there is an electrical schematic that shows both the Cummins and Monaco wiring.  Here's a screen shot for my engine.   MAYBE ANOTHER NAVIGATOR OWNER WITH A CUMMINS CAN GET YOU A COPY, IT WOULD TELL YOU WHAT MONACO WIRED ON THEIR SIDE

Thanks again Jim. Hoping someone with a similar document from Detroit will chime in here! 🙂

[BradHend]

Reach out to Visone RV.  They will personally take a look and get back to you.  They may be willing to sacrifice it. 

[JESPHDUSA]

1 hour ago, BradHend said:

Reach out to Visone RV.  They will personally take a look and get back to you.  They may be willing to sacrifice it. 

Great lead - I will do that. Thanks Brad!!

[jacwjames]

I looked at the Visione RV inventory of Navigators they had available, they don't list whether they have a DD engine. 

But I was very surprised at the number of coaches that had engine area fires and/or other areas (probably fridge).  They did have one 2004, one 2005, and two 2006, all of them burned.    https://rvparts.visonerv.com/cgi-bin/f/search.pl?

Edited August 3, 2023 by jacwjames

[Yoaks5]

Here are the manuals I've collected. Looks like there is a wiring diagram for the ECM plug in the technical manual. 

I would not be afraid to tackle this job yourself. Hopefully they will let you work on it in their parking lot. 

You will probably need to raise the coach. Since you have all options I would raise it up on the Hydraulic jacks and put a couple jack stands under it that should give you room to work. 

Good luck! 

Detroit Diesel Series 60 Service Manual - Diesel and Natural Gas-Fueled Engines 2005.pdf Detroit Diesel Engine Series 60 Technician Manual.pdf Detroit Diesel EPA04 Series 60 Operator's Manual.pdf Detroit Diesel Serie 60 DDEC VI - Troubleshooting Guide.pdf

[BradHend]

I’ve reached out to a few companies that specialize in ECM repair, they are looking to see if they have a connector with the wire whips ready to splice.   
I was also able to find this.  I think it would relate to your engine and ECM, appears to be the same plug on the last page, hopefully it’s of use. 
 

Detroit.pdf

Edited August 3, 2023 by BradHend

[JESPHDUSA]

2 hours ago, Yoaks5 said:

Here are the manuals I've collected. Looks like there is a wiring diagram for the ECM plug in the technical manual. 

I would not be afraid to tackle this job yourself. Hopefully they will let you work on it in their parking lot. 

You will probably need to raise the coach. Since you have all options I would raise it up on the Hydraulic jacks and put a couple jack stands under it that should give you room to work. 

Good luck! 

Detroit Diesel Series 60 Service Manual - Diesel and Natural Gas-Fueled Engines 2005.pdf 18.59 MB · 0 downloads Detroit Diesel Engine Series 60 Technician Manual.pdf 2.87 MB · 0 downloads Detroit Diesel EPA04 Series 60 Operator's Manual.pdf 955.37 kB · 0 downloads Detroit Diesel Serie 60 DDEC VI - Troubleshooting Guide.pdf 3.78 MB · 0 downloads

Thanks so much, Kevin. This is GOLD!

59 minutes ago, BradHend said:

I’ve reached out to a few companies that specialize in ECM repair, they are looking to see if they have a connector with the wire whips ready to splice.   
I was also able to find this.  I think it would relate to your engine and ECM, appears to be the same plug on the last page, hopefully it’s of use. 
 

Detroit.pdf 393.85 kB · 3 downloads

Thanks very much, Brad. I'm sure it will be very helpful.

[dl_racing427]

I'd definitely consider soldering instead of butt connectors, though the latter are reliable if correctly crimped. (Need a good crimper for that type of terminal.)

You can get crimp terminals with built in glue lined shrink tubing, or use glue lined shrink tubing to waterproof the splices.

[Guest Ray Davis]

I like solder connections too, but I know from experience that old wires, especially burned ones, are nearly impossible to get clean enough to solder very well.

You will likely need to make splices quite a distance up the harness in order to find clean copper and there is the possibility or probability the other wires were melted along with the ones we see.

Unfortunately,  you will likely end up repairing it yourself.  Finding someone willing to take on the job is going to be difficult.  Since we know you have the experience and ability, I think you should do it yourself.  Tell the shop foreman what you told us,  that you are quite capable, and with his help, you'll get it out of there.

Has anyone tried these interesting connectors?  https://www.amazon.com/Wirefy-Solder-Seal-Wire-Connectors/dp/B01M0EZBYQ/ref=sr_1_6?crid=B0UQZYLPMIE5&keywords=wirefy%2Bconnectors&qid=1691112612&sprefix=wirefy%2Caps%2C312&sr=8-6&th=1

[Tom Cherry]

9 hours ago, dl_racing427 said:

I'd definitely consider soldering instead of butt connectors, though the latter are reliable if correctly crimped. (Need a good crimper for that type of terminal.)

You can get crimp terminals with built in glue lined shrink tubing, or use glue lined shrink tubing to waterproof the splices.

Ratcheting Crimper ONLY.  Uniform crimping is imperative.  Good clean copper and no burned or poor insulation.  Best way.  Soldered joints are fine…after you crimp.  Use non insulated butt connectors.  Then solder.  Use good heat shrink with a few layers of tape…under good tension to add more insulation.

My solution…maybe not others.  Soldered is risky, unless you follow exacting specs.  There are several topics that have some examples of soldered joints that will meet RV vibration.  But, they require skill and good workmanship.  Easier to crimp with bare connectors and then insulate.

[JESPHDUSA]

10 hours ago, dl_racing427 said:

I'd definitely consider soldering instead of butt connectors, though the latter are reliable if correctly crimped. (Need a good crimper for that type of terminal.)

You can get crimp terminals with built in glue lined shrink tubing, or use glue lined shrink tubing to waterproof the splices.

Thanks for your input David. I'm still not sure which way to go, so all the input I can get helps me make the decision.

29 minutes ago, Ray Davis said:

I like solder connections too, but I know from experience that old wires, especially burned ones, are nearly impossible to get clean enough to solder very well.

You will likely need to make splices quite a distance up the harness in order to find clean copper and there is the possibility or probability the other wires were melted along with the ones we see.

Unfortunately,  you will likely end up repairing it yourself.  Finding someone willing to take on the job is going to be difficult.  Since we know you have the experience and ability, I think you should do it yourself.  Tell the shop foreman what you told us,  that you are quite capable, and with his help, you'll get it out of there.

Has anyone tried these interesting connectors?  https://www.amazon.com/Wirefy-Solder-Seal-Wire-Connectors/dp/B01M0EZBYQ/ref=sr_1_6?crid=B0UQZYLPMIE5&keywords=wirefy%2Bconnectors&qid=1691112612&sprefix=wirefy%2Caps%2C312&sr=8-6&th=1

Thanks, Ray. I emailed (and left voicemail) for the shop foreman this morning telling him basically what you suggest. No response from him yet. I haven't tried those connectors, but they look interesting. However, if I go the butt connector route, I think I would want one with the crimp AND glue (and then heat shrink sleeve.

11 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

Ratcheting Crimper ONLY.  Uniform crimping is imperative.  Good clean copper and no burned or poor insulation.  Best way.  Soldered joints are fine…after you crimp.  Use non insulated butt connectors.  Then solder.  Use good heat shrink with a few layers of tape…under good tension to add more insulation.

My solution…maybe not others.  Soldered is risky, unless you follow exacting specs.  There are several topics that have some examples of soldered joints that will meet RV vibration.  But, they require skill and good workmanship.  Easier to crimp with bare connectors and then insulate.

Hi Tom -

Thanks for the help. I agree with you on the ratcheting crimper. I like the idea of using non-insulated connectors and then soldering too. Best of both worlds. Still waiting to hear back from the shop as to whether or not they are going to source the connector and if/when they will allow me access to do the work. Doesn't help that we currently are experiencing record heat ( the heat index here today hit 118 degrees - much the same tomorrow). I really appreciate all the responses and support I have received on this forum. Wish I had found it BEFORE I had this issue. 🙂

[Robert92867]

Forgive me for my intrusion, I checked your listed address.. your 22 miles from Little Rock?  I would have it put in my driveway where I can work it at my leisure.

[Mocephus]

1 hour ago, Ray Davis said:

I like solder connections too, but I know from experience that old wires, especially burned ones, are nearly impossible to get clean enough to solder very well.

You will likely need to make splices quite a distance up the harness in order to find clean copper and there is the possibility or probability the other wires were melted along with the ones we see.

Unfortunately,  you will likely end up repairing it yourself.  Finding someone willing to take on the job is going to be difficult.  Since we know you have the experience and ability, I think you should do it yourself.  Tell the shop foreman what you told us,  that you are quite capable, and with his help, you'll get it out of there.

Has anyone tried these interesting connectors?  https://www.amazon.com/Wirefy-Solder-Seal-Wire-Connectors/dp/B01M0EZBYQ/ref=sr_1_6?crid=B0UQZYLPMIE5&keywords=wirefy%2Bconnectors&qid=1691112612&sprefix=wirefy%2Caps%2C312&sr=8-6&th=1

I’ve used them Ray. Fast and easy. Join the wires in the middle, dissolve the solder with a heat gun and you instantly have a soldered connection sealed in shrink tubing. Pretty snazzy. 

[Donflem]

1 hour ago, Ray Davis said:

I like solder connections too, but I know from experience that old wires, especially burned ones, are nearly impossible to get clean enough to solder very well.

You will likely need to make splices quite a distance up the harness in order to find clean copper and there is the possibility or probability the other wires were melted along with the ones we see.

Unfortunately,  you will likely end up repairing it yourself.  Finding someone willing to take on the job is going to be difficult.  Since we know you have the experience and ability, I think you should do it yourself.  Tell the shop foreman what you told us,  that you are quite capable, and with his help, you'll get it out of there.

Has anyone tried these interesting connectors?  https://www.amazon.com/Wirefy-Solder-Seal-Wire-Connectors/dp/B01M0EZBYQ/ref=sr_1_6?crid=B0UQZYLPMIE5&keywords=wirefy%2Bconnectors&qid=1691112612&sprefix=wirefy%2Caps%2C312&sr=8-6&th=1

My son uses them all the time loves them he uses a heat gun.

[dl_racing427]

2 hours ago, Ray Davis said:

I like solder connections too, but I know from experience that old wires, especially burned ones, are nearly impossible to get clean enough to solder very well.

You will likely need to make splices quite a distance up the harness in order to find clean copper and there is the possibility or probability the other wires were melted along with the ones we see.

Unfortunately,  you will likely end up repairing it yourself.  Finding someone willing to take on the job is going to be difficult.  Since we know you have the experience and ability, I think you should do it yourself.  Tell the shop foreman what you told us,  that you are quite capable, and with his help, you'll get it out of there.

Has anyone tried these interesting connectors?  https://www.amazon.com/Wirefy-Solder-Seal-Wire-Connectors/dp/B01M0EZBYQ/ref=sr_1_6?crid=B0UQZYLPMIE5&keywords=wirefy%2Bconnectors&qid=1691112612&sprefix=wirefy%2Caps%2C312&sr=8-6&th=1

I bought a kit of those.
I've only used a few so far.  You still have to clean the wires so the solder will flow.
It appears to be a low temp alloy, which melts pretty easily with a small heat gun.  It still takes quite a few seconds for the solder to flow.
I think using a torch or lighter would be difficult to control the heat to avoid burning the shrink sleeve.

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Ratcheting Crimper ONLY.  Uniform crimping is imperative.  Good clean copper and no burned or poor insulation.  Best way.  Soldered joints are fine…after you crimp.  Use non insulated butt connectors.  Then solder.  Use good heat shrink with a few layers of tape…under good tension to add more insulation.

My solution…maybe not others.  Soldered is risky, unless you follow exacting specs.  There are several topics that have some examples of soldered joints that will meet RV vibration.  But, they require skill and good workmanship.  Easier to crimp with bare connectors and then insulate.

The biggest risk with solder is the wire becomes stiff adjacent to the joint.  With flexing from vibration the wire can break.
Using heat shrink supports and prevents flexing at the joint, and I've not had problems with that method.

Crimp terminals are used extensively by OEM's, and they seem to hold up extremely well in some pretty harsh environments.

[JacobA]

I have these on order from Amazon so I have not tried them yet but research on them looks very promising. Basically a butt connector with no crimping and you can take them back apart should you make a mistake and reusable. Like earlier mentioned you would want to stagger them but everything has is issues.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B004D0FEMM/ref=ox_sc_act_image_8?smid=A1NYLSOGAMTIF4&psc=1

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by JacobA
Double post

[JESPHDUSA]

13 hours ago, Robert92867 said:

Forgive me for my intrusion, I checked your listed address.. your 22 miles from Little Rock?  I would have it put in my driveway where I can work it at my leisure.

Hi Robert. Thanks for your thoughts. Looks like it might come to that. For the past couple of days I haven't been able to get the shop forman to take or return my calls or emails. I think they are afraid they'll be sued for not fixing it properly the first time.

12 hours ago, Donflem said:

My son uses them all the time loves them he uses a heat gun.

That's 2 positive votes on these. Maybe I will try them - I have an 1800W professional heat gun gathering dust in my shop anyway. 🙂

[fixitguy]

 that connector is some industry standard!! You just need to find the right person to fixit!!

google "ECM connector"-- there is a zillion in many configurations. youll need to know the number of pins [wires]

are they in straight rows or staggered?  If you know the ECM --GM ford whoever the number will really help in finding the proper one!!

https://www.monacoers.org/topic/5669-coolant-level-sensor-wicks-down-to-ecu-per-mike-canter-2-04-14-irv-monaco-owner-forum/

 good lucki

[JESPHDUSA]

Great news! The shop foreman finally took my call and has agreed to let me come rewire the connector at his location!! Of course, I had to agree to let him order all the necessary parts, but that's a small price to pay to get the ball rolling. Hopefully he will get the parts and I will be able to go work on it in another week or so. Now I just have to decide on crimp vs. solder (or both) and go get a bunch of 18awg in a bunch of colors!

A huge THANK YOU to everyone for chiming in with your thoughts, comments, suggestions, and moral support. Very much appreciated!!

[DennisZ]

Having used those solder shrink splices, I would go with a high quality crimp splice with a separate heat shrink sleeve that has a double layer with a glue to make the connection totally waterproof, much more reliable. 

[BradHend]

I would be careful about using products that don’t bear the logo from a known standards organization.  They may seem like a good idea or product, but they usually aren’t reliable if they haven’t been tested properly or are being used for purposes not intended.  
Even then, you need to be sure that the application is suited for the product.  
 

Edited August 5, 2023 by BradHend

[CRY1942]

Best independently owned shop in your area is Ducks Garage in Benton, Arkansas.

I would give them a call and see what they have to say.

Really good folks and RV friendly.

Telephone : 501-778-2886.

Best of luck getting back on the road.

[DennisZ]

If you do want to use a 1 piece solder sleeve, use one like these, I’ve used literally thousands of them in aircraft wiring, they are not cheap, and do require a high temp heat gun to shrink them, but these are very reliable mil-spec splices.  https://www.amazon.com/TE-CONNECTIVITY-RAYCHEM-D-110-35-TERMINAL/dp/B00LQP018E/ref=sr_1_4?crid=2WOCIZTXLDMD0&keywords=Raychem+solder+splices&qid=1691243191&sprefix=raychem+solder+splices%2Caps%2C102&sr=8-4

[jacwjames]

Good luck on getting your problem solved. 

As you are working on the splices I'd take the time to make sure the wiring going to the ECM is not compromised, checking continuity to ground would be something I'd check before finalizing a spice.  

[timaz996]

20 hours ago, JESPHDUSA said:

Great news! The shop foreman finally took my call and has agreed to let me come rewire the connector at his location!! Of course, I had to agree to let him order all the necessary parts, but that's a small price to pay to get the ball rolling. Hopefully he will get the parts and I will be able to go work on it in another week or so. Now I just have to decide on crimp vs. solder (or both) and go get a bunch of 18awg in a bunch of colors!

A huge THANK YOU to everyone for chiming in with your thoughts, comments, suggestions, and moral support. Very much appreciated!!

Hopefully you will get a long pigtail on the new connector so you can stagger the wire lengths making it easier to use all of the wire connectors and shrink tubing.

Best of luck. And please let us know how it goes.