2004 HR Endeavor - STOP ENGINE light? What gives?

[bonfield]

2004 endevour with cummins isc 330 hp and the stop engine liight is on .oil pressure good no unusual noises and runnng good.Any suggestons where to start becase the things on you tube keep talking check engine and not stop engine.Also ths coach came with an $1800 upgrade cummins EPA engine upgrade does anyone know what that included

[Ivan K]

I have never heard of an 'EPA upgrade' nor would I want one but Stop Engine should be taken seriously at what it says. Could be just a bad sensor somewhere but it is time to read the codes to find what's its cause before running it. Maybe your manual has a section for blink code display? A Scangauge D is probably the cheapest and easiest to get, mobile diesel mechanic with Insite is an other good option. I personally would not take a chance driving it until I know.

[timaz996]

I would not like to see want an "EPA Upgrade" is...most likely not good for an engine.

[vito.a]

Thec upgrade may be from the standard 300hp to the 330hp with EGR (exhaust gas recirculation).

Someone will have to plug in a heavy diesel code reader under your dash and retrieve the engine codes.  Other wise you're just guessing.  

[OhReally]

I assume you have the Cummins 8.3L engine. If so, here is my experience. Your engine will likely have two oil pressure sensors, one on top behind alternator and one on side above starter. Cummins can't tell you about engines with both sensors because they claim that one was installed by then and the other by Monaco/Holiday Rambler. Information from both is arbitrated by ECU and failure of either can cause stop engine light. This may happen even though the analog gauge, excited by the same sensors, does not show no oil pressure. Either sensor has a greater than expected failure history. The upper one's warning signal usually becomes faulty and the lower one may leak and be inaccurate. Why Cummins and Monaco/HR did it this way is questionable. 

If this is your problem you can easily replace both with limited tools. Don't buy off-brand, get Cummins or VDO parts. I don't want to say this will fix your problem but it may. Good luck.

[Tom Cherry]

Monaco was “notorious” for not having the STOCK or standard engine.  One would really want to see the “MSRP” sticker to verify.

What Monaco did was, when they changed engines….either a special order or “hey….we just ran out” was to find the closest engine and put it in.

EXAMPLE.  2009 Scepter was to be finished in late January, 2009.  Monaco was out of the STOCK ISL 425. Their production planners had already designated the STOCK Dynasty ISL 425 for it.  There was a NOTE on the advanced MSRP. Engine Upgrade 2 ST BRK. Translated….they popped in the standard Dynasty mill…which they had an abundance of.  It was an $18XX upgrade or “accessory”.  Difference was simple.  It had a compression break on the intake.  It ALSO did have the VGT EXH BRK as well.  

If you call Cummins and give them the SN, they will tell you what that engine had in the way of “emissions” upgrades.  NO…THIS WAS NOT some “aftermarket” kit or an add on.  It was a Cummins supplied “upgrade” and NOT a Monaco item.

On the Scepter, Monaco added the 2 stage Brake selector switch.  Also the ECM was already set up but they had to make sure the signal(s) from the “Jake” were relayed back to the ECM. Standard on all Dynasties, but was custom programmed or had wiring interface.  BUT, the backbone harness from front to rear for the Scepter/Camelot was the same as the Dynasty/Imperial and the other upper food chains. Cheaper to have ONE than multiple’s….otherwise, no make the Jake work

NOW it gets Interesting.  The 2004 Camelots came with a 8.3L ISC and 350 HP.  The Scepters were supposed to be the Twins.  BUT the Camelots were Oregon and the Scepters, I THOUGHT, were Indiana.  If you pull the 2004 Endeavor, NOT a Roadmaster chassis….per the sales brochure.  Has a Freightliner XCM CHASSIS and a Cummins 6.7L 360 HP.

Does your 2004 have the Roadmaster Chassis?  Call Cummins with engine SN and ask…

[jacwjames]

1 hour ago, OhReally said:

I assume you have the Cummins 8.3L engine. If so, here is my experience. Your engine will likely have two oil pressure sensors, one on top behind alternator and one on side above starter. Cummins can't tell you about engines with both sensors because they claim that one was installed by then and the other by Monaco/Holiday Rambler. Information from both is arbitrated by ECU and failure of either can cause stop engine light. This may happen even though the analog gauge, excited by the same sensors, does not show no oil pressure. Either sensor has a greater than expected failure history. The upper one's warning signal usually becomes faulty and the lower one may leak and be inaccurate. Why Cummins and Monaco/HR did it this way is questionable. 

If this is your problem you can easily replace both with limited tools. Don't buy off-brand, get Cummins or VDO parts. I don't want to say this will fix your problem but it may. Good luck.

My understanding, on my engine, is that Monaco installed an oil pressure sensor that was for the dash gauge, and the Cummins sensor provided info to the ECM. 

The OP of this thread needs to get a code reader to understand why the stop engine light came on.  The most readily available is the Scangauge, which is available at a lot of truck stops.  Another option is the Bluefire, which communicates with a phone or tablet that's display is configured by the owner.  Either will give you a fault code.

I recommend creating an account of the Cummins Quickserve site.  Once you create an account you register your engine using the SN.  Once you've done this you will have access to all the info concerning the fault code including detailed info on how to troubleshoot. 

I would not start and drive the coach until you can get the Stop Engine Light out.

On my coach the Cummins Oil Pressure sensor is located above the starter.  The original sensor does actually provide oil pressure reading to the ECU, I use a Silverleaf monitor that shows the actual pressure.  At some point Cummins changed the sensor to a switch, basically good/bad. 

So if the sensor fails Cummins will install a switch and then reprogram the ECU to show oil pressure is either ZERO or 55psi.  Not something I want so I bought (what I hope) is a sensor that will show actual pressure. 

Edited February 13 by jacwjames

[frankogrly]

Had the same thing happen a few years ago. Cummins tech at a rally hooked up his computer and said it was a bad oil sender that went to the ECM. Sender was easy to replace attaching the wire to the terminal bock was a challenge. I found it was easier to open the hatch in the closet to connect the wire.

Frank O

01 Endeavor

[bonfield]

This coach  is on a roadmaster chassis and does anyone have the part number for the oil sender switch

[96 EVO]

15 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

   The Scepters were supposed to be the Twins.  BUT the Camelots were Oregon and the Scepters, I THOUGHT, were Indiana.   

My Scepter was built in Oregon!

[Tom Cherry]

1 minute ago, 96 EVO said:

My Scepter was built in Oregon!

YES,,,  Ben,

I should have "qualified it"....the comment was for the EARLY Scepters, as in THIS PARTICLAR Topic's MH...a 2004, built when Indiana was in production.  Later they MOVED most (how many?) to Oregon... I don't have a clue as to the exact year...

BUT, when the Scepters and Diplomats and such were built in Indiana, there was a "GENERIC" set of drawings for them as well as "specs". But the Engineers and Assembly Supervisors and other "PTB" (Powers That Be), could use what Oregon was using or doing or had some flexibility and they were very different....

The Motor Oil instead of the AW46 that Oregon was using was a prime example of the LACK of standardization over the entire Monaco Product line (including all the brands).

Hope this clarifies it to your satisfaction.  BUT, even the Oregon units were different....

For example..  During the last days of production or maybe months prior to filing for Bankruptcy....., it was all hands on deck and use whatever we got.  Thus, the 2009 Scepter that was being made and was "MINE TO BUY" was going to have a Dynasty Engine...not the STOCK ISL425.  Difference was the Dynasty has the 2 Stage Compression Brake in the INTAKE or HEAD.  Monaco had it listed as a "Upgrade" or an "Accessory".

Likewise, I don't know if there were any MORE 2009 (all models) "MADE" after the bankruptcy....but when Navistar purchased and then had to get back into production, they, I believe, changed the MY to 2010.  Those were also made with whatever was on hand....  They were highly unusual...for example, a 2010 Imperial spent weeks in the Dealer's shop (it was the GM of the Dealership's personal MH).  They had their senior tech and a helper spend almost 2 FULL weeks going through what did NOT work and ordering the right parts.  There was very little "standardization" and the first new (former Monaco employees) were put on jobs that they had never done before.  SO, the differences between a Camelot made in Oregon and a Scepter made, earlier, in Indiana were minimal...compared to some of the first 2010's to roll (some would NOT START) off the assembly line.

Thus...one can NOT depend on on all circuits and all components and such to be the same.... Indiana is the most commonly cited example...but even later on in Oregon...GET IT OUT...OFF THE LINE....USE THAT..."It'll probably WORK....but it ain't our concern...the Dealer will sort it out...."

Thanks,

[pcpronze]

I get the Stop engine lite on mine and have spent thousands with Cummins to fix it.   They claim it is a communication issue between the accelerator and the ECM.   All gauge functions read normal at the time but I lose foot throttle control.   I can drive with the cruise control at this time, and it will clear itself.   I have had accelerator replaced because they said it was faulty, problem subsided for a couple years now back and Cumins says it is a Monaco issue and Monaco says it is a Cummins issue.   Good luck hope yours is the oil sensor.

[OhReally]

Bonfield, Upper oil pressure sensor is VDO 360009 and lower sensor is Cummins 5677803 for my 8.3L engine.

Pcpronze, your accelerator is likely not the problem because the stop engine has caused engine derating leading to behavior you describe. The accelerator is probably not involved with what caused the light to begin with. I would pursue getting your money back as your situation is obviously the problem where too many Cummins "mechanics" are totally dependent on what their computer tells them. As I have said before, a diagnostic system is doing quite well if it delivers 95% accuracy. The last 5% needs to be made up by the mechanic's experience. Just saying...

[96 EVO]

18 hours ago, bonfield said:

2004 endevour with cummins isc 330 hp and the stop engine liight is on .oil pressure good no unusual noises and runnng good.Any suggestons where to start becase the things on you tube keep talking check engine and not stop engine.Also ths coach came with an $1800 upgrade cummins EPA engine upgrade does anyone know what that included

Like Ivan mentioned above, without a code reader, all anyone can do is 'guess'!

[jacwjames]

2 hours ago, bonfield said:

This coach  is on a roadmaster chassis and does anyone have the part number for the oil sender switch

I'd recommend creating a Quickserve account and getting the part number from there, it will be specific to you engine. 

Not sure when Cummins went from a sensor to a switch.  If you have a sensor, which is no longer listed, and have to go to a switch it will require a ECU programming update, it will cost ~++$450. 

Back ~5 years ago another Monaco owner reached out to me, his rig would start, CEL was on and it wouldn't rev up.   From memory his dash gauge showed good pressure.   We went through potential causes and ultimately I said I thought it was the oil sensor.  He was able to drive in limp mode to a Cummins shop near him and they confirmed it was the sensor and replaced with the new Switch, wiring harness, and programming for $400.  Harness PN 3154755  Switch PN 4076930.    The switch is on/off.  That got him back on the road.  He didn't have a monitoring systems so he didn't care that the ECU would show 55 psi.

But without codes your shooting in the dark. 

FWIW I bought a sensor PN 4921511 that is suppose to work in place of the original sensor.  On IRV2 ~2-3 years ago there was a discussion on this and one member said that that sensor is originally on a 5.9 cummins but will work on a 8.3 ISC.  He bought one and tried it and it will work.  I bought one to carry as a spare BUT have not tried it.  Cheap insurance. 

 

Attached is a list of sensors on my rig, got this off of Quickserve. 

Also attached is the TSB for the change from a sensor to a switch, the parts are relatively cheap, it's the ECU programming that costs.

But before I'd go that route I'd be trying to get fault codes. 

I use a Silverleaf VMSpc monitoring system (no longer available).  I has a diagnostic function and will show fault codes.  Back in Oct I was on a trip and started to get a CEL light coming on.  Checked the Silverleaf and it had a fault code dealing with the CAPS fuel injection pump erratic pressure.  I looked up the fault code on Quickserve and explained what it was but then also had detailed trouble shooting steps.  I followed the steps which first said to check wiring harness for fuel pressure gauge on CAPS pump, then pull and clean sensor, which I did (parked at a Walmart), put everything back together and fired the rig up and all is good, drove ~3500 more miles to finish the trip. 

Other options for a monitoring systems that read fault codes are a Scanguage or a Bluefire, that or just buy a code reader that will work on a Cummins engine with the correct harness connection.

Cummins ECM sensors.pdf TSB Oil Pressure Switch Installation.pdf

Edited February 13 by jacwjames

[Floyd4949]

Same scenario... STOP Engine light with absolutely no gauge or drivability issues. Cummins mobile tech read code... low coolant. Bad sensor @ surge tank.