rpasetto Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Driving home with our 'new' 07 Sig, I noticed a 'pull/drift' to the right. Although there were lots of roads, on the trip, which were 'crowned' in that direction even on a few which I thought were pretty level/flat there was that tendency to the right. Held the wheel in a straight-on position, the coach goes nicely straight; let loose on the wheel and it tends to the right even on those flat roads. Thinking of possibilities... A "Set" to the Tires? Incorrect toe-in/out?' Misadjusted Steering box (off the sweet spot)? or could Ride height be the cause ...? or something else? What's the best way to eliminate or verify the above as possible causes? Parked it in my driveway tonight and I did a quick measurement of the airbags, plate to plate. It's not a perfectly level drive ( level on an 8' board shows drop isabout 1"). However, I thought it was level enough to do a "rough" airbag measurement. Got 9" on the passenger side and around 8 1/2" on driver side. Could that be enough to account for the problem? ... or is that not significant to cause the issue and I should look elsewhere? Note: I assume that the " airbag height" is still correct for the S-10 chassis. I know they changed to the Powergera/Valid air leveling that year and the owner manual doesn't have the airbag height measurement diagram like for previous years. Either way I need to correct the ride height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klcdenver Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Before you do anything check on the front axle to see if you have a steering stabilizer such as a safe-t-plus or roadmaster. If so it probably needs adjusted. It also does not take much of a crosswind to make that happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidL Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 toe doesn't cause pull. Camber does. ensure your tire pressures are equal on same axles Ride height doesn't affect pull Steering box doesn't affect pull (just off center or looseness or tightness in turning wheel) Tires can cause pull, but they usually get that way due to an alignment problem or inflation problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaz996 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 I did a long post on this on the irv2 website about four years ago. It ended up being my six pack valves needed to be resealed. My coach has track straight as a die ever since I did that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Mo Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 A Sig does not need a steering stabilizer…. How old are your steer tires ? When I first drove my Sig for the first time I thought it was out of alignment, pulled hard to the right. New tires it drives straight, had it aligned anyway…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpasetto Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 5 minutes ago, Johnny Mo said: A Sig does not need a steering stabilizer…. How old are your steer tires ? When I first drove my Sig for the first time I thought it was out of alignment, pulled hard to the right. New tires it drives straight, had it aligned anyway…. All tires are 2019's... not old but could be old enough to have developed a "set". 1 hour ago, klcdenver said: Before you do anything check on the front axle to see if you have a steering stabilizer such as a safe-t-plus or roadmaster. If so it probably needs adjusted. It also does not take much of a crosswind to make that happen. I'll check... maybe someone installed a safe-t-plus on it... not sure why. 43 minutes ago, DavidL said: toe doesn't cause pull. Camber does. Is there a way to check if camber is out of whack? (besides going to an alignment shop, that is). 43 minutes ago, DavidL said: ensure your tire pressures are equal on same axles Ride height doesn't affect pull Steering box doesn't affect pull (just off center or looseness or tightness in turning wheel) What symptom would "off center" have? 43 minutes ago, DavidL said: Tires can cause pull, but they usually get that way due to an alignment problem or inflation problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidL Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, rpasetto said: All tires are 2019's... not old but could be old enough to have developed a "set". I'll check... maybe someone installed a safe-t-plus on it... not sure why. Is there a way to check if camber is out of whack? (besides going to an alignment shop, that is). What symptom would "off center" have? If the coach is pulling slightly, then it's a minor issue and it will be difficult to "see" the issue without the right tools (an alignment bay). Bring it to an alignment truck shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 8 hours ago, DavidL said: If the coach is pulling slightly, then it's a minor issue and it will be difficult to "see" the issue without the right tools (an alignment bay). Bring it to an alignment truck shop. Barry, the Shop Supervisor at Josams, rotated the front tires on mine. He said that often fixed a slight drifting. The front end was NOT that far out and he thought it was just how the "tires were". Obviously have it aligned, but also rotate the two fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidL Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 In theory, you could smoothly and straight drive the RV onto a known flat / level pad (good luck finding that) and use a bubble level vertically kissing the sides of the sidewall and look for differences in angle of the tires / wheels. The tops should be slightly inboard (camber) compared to the bottom. If the Left is More camber (more of an angle from vertical) than the Right, then that would cause pull to the right. If different, then you would need to decide to straighten the left or put more camber into the right. And since the change requires some significant effort to loosen the very tight big bolts...you might as well go to a truck alignment shop to begin with. Note that some suspensions don't have camber / caster adjustment capability. Caster can also cause pull but is even harder to check without an alignment rack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpasetto Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, DavidL said: In theory, you could smoothly and straight drive the RV onto a known flat / level pad (good luck finding that) and use a bubble level vertically kissing the sides of the sidewall and look for differences in angle of the tires / wheels. The tops should be slightly inboard (camber) compared to the bottom. If the Left is More camber (more of an angle from vertical) than the Right, then that would cause pull to the right. If different, then you would need to decide to straighten the left or put more camber into the right. And since the change requires some significant effort to loosen the very tight big bolts...you might as well go to a truck alignment shop to begin with. Note that some suspensions don't have camber / caster adjustment capability. Caster can also cause pull but is even harder to check without an alignment rack. I took a carpenter's bubble level checked and bubble is in the center on both sides. Great is it's a 2x4 for a wall but I doubt it's much of a precision measurement. Then I decided to look underneath... looks like a "Steer-Safe" (or similar device) was added by some previous owner and it's probably tighter on the RH side than the left see below) or maybe loose and slid over. I guess the thing to do is tighten the driver side a bit ... or loosen the passenger side... or both. If the 'drift/pull" changes then I know this is the cause. Why anyone would put it on in the first place, I do not know... maybe some other issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, rpasetto said: I took a carpenter's bubble level checked and bubble is in the center on both sides. Great is it's a 2x4 for a wall but I doubt it's much of a precision measurement. Then I decided to look underneath... looks like a "Steer-Safe" (or similar device) was added by some previous owner and it's probably tighter on the RH side than the left see below) or maybe loose and slid over. I guess the thing to do is tighten the driver side a bit ... or loosen the passenger side... or both. If the 'drift/pull" changes then I know this is the cause. Why anyone would put it on in the first place, I do not know... maybe some other issue? Congratulations, you have a suspension device that I’ve never seen. Don’t pretend to be a chassis expert…. @vanwill52 or @David Pratt might chime in. Most of the steering stabilizer were shock absorber style and fitted so the were parallel to the axle. Never seen a spring style. From the comments and my understanding of the “fixed” style various the adjustable types, the fixed would perform or react differently based on the road crown and such. The adjustable had a magnetic device so you could center it. No idea how you would install such and keep if correct. How would you determine how much tension and get it installed and balanced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J A Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 You might want to look at a laer model/ design of a Safety Steer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 My personal experience and reading and talking to others. A steering stabilizer on a Dynasty and above chassis is somewhat superfluous. There is not as much wander like here is in the lower ends like my Camelot. David Pratt, our present site owner, put an ADJUSTABLE Blue Ox TruCenter on his 2005 Executive. If I were inclined to put a stabilizer on the Upper end, it would be the kit that Henderson’s sells with an adjustable trim or centering mechanism…the non adjustables have issues as roads change. I followed Pratt’s example and added a TruCenter to my Camelot. It was nice and tightened up the steering. Later on David experimented and added a prototype “Watts” Link. He said it did make some difference….but also noted that the Watts link “improved or amplified” the TruCenter’s performance. I followed suit and totally agree. In this case, no knowing how or who what the rig has, I’d pull off the springs and mounts and drive it for awhile. If it had a “pull”, then align it and reverse the front wheels. Many Dynasty and up owners don’t feel the need or have the desire to add components. If I DID want to improve the handling, there is now, I believe, a kit for adding a watts link for the Dynasty and up. I would purchase that from Mike Hughes and that would be all I would do. https://monacowatts.com/products.htm you can learn more about the watts kits there. I chose NOT to add the rear cross braces to my Camelot. It now tracks so smooth and has no wander and I tend to take curves or exits a little hotter then i used to as there is no “roll”. Really a vast improvement. I did other upgrades but if I were to do it all again, the first would've been the Front watts kit….and then decide if I needed any more. Just my experience and reading a whole lout over the past 13 years here and talking to many members that have upgraded… Totally unsolicited…but the spring kit looks a little primitive and it could cause more issues than it was supposed to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpasetto Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said: Congratulations, you have a suspension device that I’ve never seen. Don’t pretend to be a chassis expert…. @vanwill52 or @David Pratt might chime in. Most of the steering stabilizer were shock absorber style and fitted so the were parallel to the axle. Never seen a spring style. From the comments and my understanding of the “fixed” style various the adjustable types, the fixed would perform or react differently based on the road crown and such. The adjustable had a magnetic device so you could center it. No idea how you would install such and keep if correct. How would you determine how much tension and get it installed and balanced? I actually found the website for "SteerSafe" https://steersafe.com/ Will read thru the adjustment instructions to see how easy it is to adjust. https://steersafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/ADJUSTMENT-INSTRUCTIONS.pdf If that doesn't work I'll just remove it. My guess it that the springs weakened with age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill R Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 5 hours ago, rpasetto said: Then I decided to look underneath... looks like a "Steer-Safe" (or similar device) was added by some previous owner and it's probably tighter on the RH side than the left see below) or maybe loose and slid over. I guess the thing to do is tighten the driver side a bit ... or loosen the passenger side... or both. If the 'drift/pull" changes then I know this is the cause. Rick - My coach came from the PO with a steer safe as well. I also had the opposite of you, a slight pull to the left. So I decided to remove the steer safe. No change. Those devices are designed to keep your wheels straight in case of a steer tire blow out. I have read several testimonies that they are effective in doing that, so I put them back on. My next thing to do is swap the front steer tires. I have read that this has solved a lot of slight pulls to the left or right. Best of luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpasetto Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 28 minutes ago, Bill R said: Rick - My coach came from the PO with a steer safe as well. I also had the opposite of you, a slight pull to the left. So I decided to remove the steer safe. No change. Those devices are designed to keep your wheels straight in case of a steer tire blow out. I have read several testimonies that they are effective in doing that, so I put them back on. My next thing to do is swap the front steer tires. I have read that this has solved a lot of slight pulls to the left or right. Best of luck. Hve you tried their adjustment procedure? https://steersafe.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/ADJUSTMENT-INSTRUCTIONS.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill R Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Yes I did when I put it back on. It didn’t change the slight pull. You should try still. You never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomevansfl Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 9 hours ago, Tom Cherry said: My personal experience and reading and talking to others. A steering stabilizer on a Dynasty and above chassis is somewhat superfluous. There is not as much wander like here is in the lower ends like my Camelot. David Pratt, our present site owner, put an ADJUSTABLE Blue Ox TruCenter on his 2005 Executive. If I were inclined to put a stabilizer on the Upper end, it would be the kit that Henderson’s sells with an adjustable trim or centering mechanism…the non adjustables have issues as roads change. I followed Pratt’s example and added a TruCenter to my Camelot. It was nice and tightened up the steering. It would appear the BlueOx TruCenter has been discontinued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 9 hours ago, tomevansfl said: It would appear the BlueOx TruCenter has been discontinued. Yes, but Hendersons has a kit for the brand they sell which makes it the equivalent of the Blue Ox. https://www.hendersonslineup.com/supersteer-products Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pratt Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 I have never heard of or seen this devise on a Motorhome or an OTR tractor. IMHO I would remove it before I started dumping money into trying yo get the pull corrected and see if that corrects the issue. I would not re-install it either. There are better alternatives out there such as the Watts Link and Crossbars to correct the Road Master Chassis wandering/handling issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturer Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 My 06 Executive had a slight pull to the right. The alignment was good, so I had a tire shop swap the steer tires side to side. After the switch, the coach had a slight pull to the left. I then had the FL tire switched with the R tag. After that the coach drove straight. Today, I installed the TRU Center steering system. Now, it's just point it, hit the set button, sit back and enjoy the view. 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmotorsports Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Rick, I'm not sure if you've followed along on my thread on irv2, but I am surprised no one has mentioned thrust angle. When I purchased our 2003 Dynasty it had a pretty significant pull to the right, even on flat concrete interstate, and worse on crowned 2-lane highways. If holding the wheel straight it was fine but upon removing my hands it would shoot pretty hard to the right, like within a couple of coach lengths it would be in the next lane. I took it to several alignment shops and they all said the same thing, "it's within spec." After a couple years of tolerating this I finally took matters into my own hands and used a laser alignment tool from the drive axle to the steer axle and immediately saw the issue. The drive and tag axles were off by approx. 1/8". This resulted in no matter what was going on in the front end, with the drive axle pointing slightly to the left, it was driving it to the right causing the steering wheel to have to be used to correct. Hope that makes sense. Basically the drive and tag axles needed to be adjusted to keep the coach pointed straight ahead by lengthening the control arms on the left side. However, the wife and I prefer to travel 2-lane backroad highways whenever possible, so I wanted to add just a little more thrust angle to compensate for these crowned roads. With no adjustment on these coaches like we have on our OTR trucks, I ended up cutting my trailing arms on the left side (street side) and lengthening them by .156" (5/32"). The 1/8" the trust angle was off plus another 1/32" to compensate for road crown. I have a video on my YouTube channel explaining the symptoms as well as how I corrected it. Our coach has handled like a dream ever since. There really shouldn't be much needed to these S-Series chassis if all of the geometry is correct. Unfortunately, I discovered that the "specs" are quite forgiving so when the alignment shops told me they were within spec, this was still a rather broad range. As I see it, anything else thrown at these chassis to aid in the matter is nothing more than a bandaid unless the geometry is correct. That being said, I did fabricate and install a Watts link to the front of mine a couple of years after adjusting my thrust angle and while the results were much less noticeable, the area the Watts link helped the most with is on those long large radius sweeping curves. I would set my steering wheel going into them and about 2/3 or so through I would have to adjust the steering wheel just a bit to compensate for the forces being applied to both the panhard bar and control arm bushings. Even with the Atro bushings the forces are enough to allow enough movement to allow the H-frame to shift slightly. I also have a three part video series on the fabrication and installation of the Watts link on my YouTube channel as well. Actually I think I may have posted those videos to the video library here on monacoers.org after joining. Once the Watts link was installed in the front that issue was resolved. Personally, I would put my Dynasty up against d*** near anything on the road as far as handling now. It's been a joy to drive for the past almost ten years now since the suspension work and 650+ mile days are nothing. No arriving at the campground or home and being exhausted from chasing the coach down the road. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpasetto Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 13 minutes ago, zmotorsports said: Rick, I'm not sure if you've followed along on my thread on irv2, but I am surprised no one has mentioned thrust angle. When I purchased our 2003 Dynasty it had a pretty significant pull to the right, even on flat concrete interstate, and worse on crowned 2-lane highways. If holding the wheel straight it was fine but upon removing my hands it would shoot pretty hard to the right, like within a couple of coach lengths it would be in the next lane. I took it to several alignment shops and they all said the same thing, "it's within spec." After a couple years of tolerating this I finally took matters into my own hands and used a laser alignment tool from the drive axle to the steer axle and immediately saw the issue. The drive and tag axles were off by approx. 1/8". This resulted in no matter what was going on in the front end, with the drive axle pointing slightly to the left, it was driving it to the right causing the steering wheel to have to be used to correct. Hope that makes sense. Basically the drive and tag axles needed to be adjusted to keep the coach pointed straight ahead by lengthening the control arms on the left side. However, the wife and I prefer to travel 2-lane backroad highways whenever possible, so I wanted to add just a little more thrust angle to compensate for these crowned roads. With no adjustment on these coaches like we have on our OTR trucks, I ended up cutting my trailing arms on the left side (street side) and lengthening them by .156" (5/32"). The 1/8" the trust angle was off plus another 1/32" to compensate for road crown. I have a video on my YouTube channel explaining the symptoms as well as how I corrected it. Our coach has handled like a dream ever since. There really shouldn't be much needed to these S-Series chassis if all of the geometry is correct. Unfortunately, I discovered that the "specs" are quite forgiving so when the alignment shops told me they were within spec, this was still a rather broad range. As I see it, anything else thrown at these chassis to aid in the matter is nothing more than a bandaid unless the geometry is correct. That being said, I did fabricate and install a Watts link to the front of mine a couple of years after adjusting my thrust angle and while the results were much less noticeable, the area the Watts link helped the most with is on those long large radius sweeping curves. I would set my steering wheel going into them and about 2/3 or so through I would have to adjust the steering wheel just a bit to compensate for the forces being applied to both the panhard bar and control arm bushings. Even with the Atro bushings the forces are enough to allow enough movement to allow the H-frame to shift slightly. I also have a three part video series on the fabrication and installation of the Watts link on my YouTube channel as well. Actually I think I may have posted those videos to the video library here on monacoers.org after joining. Once the Watts link was installed in the front that issue was resolved. Personally, I would put my Dynasty up against d*** near anything on the road as far as handling now. It's been a joy to drive for the past almost ten years now since the suspension work and 650+ mile days are nothing. No arriving at the campground or home and being exhausted from chasing the coach down the road. Mike, I recall having read thru a lot of your thread on IRV2; with 100+ pages it's hard to recall everything... at my age 🙂 Now that you mention "thrust angle", I recall bringing a previous Monaco to Josams in FL many years back; they mentioned "thrust angle" as one of the things they check when they do their alignment procedure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmotorsports Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 2 minutes ago, rpasetto said: Mike, I recall having read thru a lot of your thread on IRV2; with 100+ pages it's hard to recall everything... at my age 🙂 Now that you mention "thrust angle", I recall bringing a previous Monaco to Josams in FL many years back; they mentioned "thrust angle" as one of the things they check when they do their alignment procedure. Oh come on Rick, you mean you can't remember all 100+ pages. What the hell????? 🤣 I just thought I'd throw that out here as I hope others can benefit as well if they are also being told they are "within spec". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpasetto Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 2 hours ago, zmotorsports said: Oh come on Rick, you mean you can't remember all 100+ pages. What the hell????? 🤣 I just thought I'd throw that out here as I hope others can benefit as well if they are also being told they are "within spec". I do remember lots of your thread, though. I learned a lot from you, including things I can do and cannot. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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