Venturer Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 While checking the pressure in the accumulator tank, water came out the Schraeder valve. That tells me the diaphragm is bad. I can get a replacement, however, it appears some coaches have the tank while others do not. My previous Tiffin did not. Other than eliminating short start and stop times for the pump, I question the need for the tank. Over the use of a tank of fresh water, the Aqua-Pro 3000 pump would have to run the same total amount of time with or without an accumulator tank. Replace the tank or eliminate it???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterskier_1 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 Doug, I had a leak on my pressure tank when I showed up to dry camp at Quartzsite. I think it is the plastic connection into the tank, but I'm not sure. I cut the line to the tank (it's the only line out of the water pump that doesn't go to the manifold) and capped it. Be prepared (I wasn't) for a couple gallons of water to flow back out of the tank. I can't easily get to mine, it's above the Aquahot valves. I'm not sure if that was the original way it was installed, or if when the original Aquahot was replaced by the 600D things changed. A new one is around $60 at home depot or lowes, and I plan on replacing mine when I get back home. To answer your question, when I'm not running the water full on, instead of the water coming from the expansion tank until pressure decreased to a certain point, and the pump cycling on to recharge, the pump short-cycles every couple seconds, depending on the flow. Washing my hands the pump may cycle 30 times for a couple seconds each time. I don't think that's good on the pump, even if the total pump time were the same - I'm not sure that is true either. I have read that some of the newer pumps are variable speed, and can compensate for no accumulator tank, but mine is not one of those. -Rick N. Casa Grande, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaz996 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 It provides smoother operation. I would keep one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturer Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 (edited) Rick, I think the short cycling is due to the start and cutoff pressures being set too close together. When I turn on a valve, the pump will run continuously till I shut the faucet off. Then it stops about a second or two later. With a faucet on, I can't detect any fluctuation in the pressure. Edited March 3 by Venturer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomV48 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 8 minutes ago, timaz996 said: It provides smoother operation. I would keep one. Then there is the higher flow, Remco Aquajet variable speed pump in our couch which specifically says do not use with a pressure accumulator. We had three rigs prior with standard water pumps and I added a small acculator to all three and really appreciated the improvement in flow and reduced cycle frequency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 My coach originally came with a small pressure tank but previous owner removed and redid some of the plumbing to add two storage drawers in that area. Last year my Aquajet pump failed and I had to replace, I was on the road and the camping store I stopped at offered several different types and a range of cost. I just wanted to get something to get me going so I bought a Lippert Flow Max™ RV Water Pump - 12V. ~$130, it actually does pretty good and is quite. So I probably won't go back with an Aquajet. See no reason to have a pressure tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Pratten Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) I removed our Jabsco accumulator tank also. It adds some short cycling of the water pump, especially if there's air in the lines. We can easily live with that versus hassle/risk of changing water filters. Our water filters were installed directly over the inverter and felt much more important to sacrifice the accumulator to create space for relocating the filters. Could have mounted the accumulator somewhere else, say under a sink, but just don't feel it brings that much value. edit - I should add the most important part, the boss doesn't even notice the pump cycling and could care less if she did. Just as long as water flows when the faucet is opened, all's good here. Edited March 4 by Jim Pratten added content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterskier_1 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 3 hours ago, Venturer said: Rick, I think the short cycling is due to the start and cutoff pressures being set too close together. When I turn on a valve, the pump will run continuously till I shut the faucet off. Then it stops about a second or two later. With a faucet on, I can't detect any fluctuation in the pressure. Doug, I have no doubt, but I'm not sure if it is or how to adjust those set points. The pumps I've used in the past didn't have adjustment, but did have rebuild kits. I'll see if it is just a bad connector - if so, and I can repair without removing the tank itself, that's what I'll do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBRV.0 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 4 hours ago, timaz996 said: It provides smoother operation. I would keep one. That is exactly the purpose of a pressure tank. Every water system needs a pressure tank of some sort to operate efficiently and to reduce system wear and stress. Sometimes the pressure tank is called a reserve or accumulator tank. Every countryside well owner has a tank paired with their water well. The life of a pump can be measured in the number of on/off cycles. Reducing the cycles increases pump longevity. A 2 gallon tank may be able to buffer as much as one gallon. This means that if you draw a cup of water, or brush your teeth or wash your hands, the pump may not have to run because water under pressure comes from the tank. When tank pressure drops due to dispensing, the pump comes on to meet current demand, but it also recharges the tank. Most tanks contain a rubber-type air bladder which separates air from water. That bladder holds air that is managed by the Schrader valve on the tank. If the bladder ages and ruptures, the existing air will be absorbed by water and there will be no air to act as a pressure buffer - thus it will behave as though there is no tank. Until a tank is replaced, it is possible to add air to the tank if the tank water line is attached at the tank's lowest point. But be very, very careful - draw/run water as air is applied, otherwise the air pressure can burst lines because the air you are adding is at lot higher pressure than your normal water pressure. To be crystal clear, operating without a tank, or with a failed tank, means that drawing a tablespoon of water can cause your water pump to operate because you have an in-compressible liquid (water) in your lines that is under pressure, and letting a tiny bit of water out will immediately drop the pressure, thus activating the pump. This is commonly called short-cycling, and will wear out your pump. Edited March 4 by DBRV.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venturer Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, waterskier_1 said: Doug, I have no doubt, but I'm not sure if it is or how to adjust those set points. The pumps I've used in the past didn't have adjustment, but did have rebuild kits. I'll see if it is just a bad connector - if so, and I can repair without removing the tank itself, that's what I'll do. This is for the Aqua-Pro 3000 pump that is in my coach. If you have the same pump, this will help. If you have a different pump, maybe not. To adjust the Aqua-Pro 3000 RV pump, follow these steps: Safety First: Before making any adjustments, ensure the pump is disconnected from the power supply to prevent accidents. Pressure Switch Adjustment: Locate the pressure switch on the pump. It’s usually a small component with an adjustment screw. Turning the screw clockwise will increase the pump’s shut-off pressure (making it more likely to cycle). Turning the screw counterclockwise will lower the shut-off pressure (making the pump less likely to cycle). Testing: Use your RV’s shower or faucet to determine when the pump cycles. Adjust the pressure switch until you achieve the desired performance. Edited March 4 by Venturer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Last year I noticed that my pump was leaking at the pressure switch, details of pump below Aquajet RV Pump 5.3 gpm @ 85psi 10 amp 12VDC - Part # 5503-AV15-B636 This pump cost ~$156 in 2011. Just checked price now an it is $225. I determined it was the small diaphragm that was leaking but Aquajet did not sell just the diaphragm (probably a $0.10 cent part, small round rubber piece). I did find a part number for the pressure switch, bought it from tractor supply, and it came with the diaphragm. So I just used the diaphragm and that stopped the leak. Later when getting ready to leave on a trip the pump didn't turn on when I pressed the switch the pump would not start, so tapped the pressure switch with screw driver and it started but then would not stop. I had to stop the pump with a switch and then it was inconsistent at to whether it would stop with the switch. So I thought I'd just replace the pressure switch all together since I had one. WRONG, once replaced I couldn't adjust the pump to stop, there is a small screw you can turn in and out. So I called Aquajet and talked to their support line who said the pressure switch, even though it has an adjustment screw, was not adjustable. It had to be on a test stand to adjust. So that pretty much means the pump is a throw away. Won't buy that again. So I left on my trip and figured I do something when I got on the road. Stopped at a RV store in Grand Junction CO and bought the Lippert Pump. Not sure if it is adjustable or not, if it isn't and can't be repaired I'd just buy another one or similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBRV.0 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 52 minutes ago, jacwjames said: So I called Aquajet and talked to their support line who said the pressure switch, even though it has an adjustment screw, was not adjustable. It had to be on a test stand to adjust. So that pretty much means the pump is a throw away. I understand. After using my MH for 4 months, the pump in mine quit pumping. It was not OEM - prior mounting screw holes were my clue. It too was the pressure switch. I verified by bypassing the switch. I tinkered and found the sensor was not adjustable or fixable, so I bought a Seaflow 5.5 gpm 60 psi for $139. Then I determined that my pressure tank's bladder had failed. I currently have a 5 gallon replacement tank and a place to put it in the bay, and am thinking about wiring both the old pump and new pump in parallel because our shower flow is still dismal, even after new filters. To do all that, I plan to re-plumb the whole setup to include a set of filters for water going into the tank and a separate set for water out of the tank. For pressure regulation, I have a standard water well mechanical pressure switch that I will implement - which is fully pressure-adjustable, BTW. As for my thinking, I would not throw away a pump with a bad switch. They typically have a garden-hose inlet and outlet. If the pressure switch is bypassed, it can be used to transfer water, using standard garden hoses ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 4 minutes ago, DBRV.0 said: As for my thinking, I would not throw away a pump with a bad switch. They typically have a garden-hose inlet and outlet. If the pressure switch is bypassed, it can be used to transfer water, using standard garden hoses ... Didn't think about that, I have another 12 volt pump for misc stuff but wouldn't hurt to have another. I still haven't given up on trying to repair the old pump, just haven't had time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 4 hours ago, jacwjames said: Last year I noticed that my pump was leaking at the pressure switch, details of pump below Aquajet RV Pump 5.3 gpm @ 85psi 10 amp 12VDC - Part # 5503-AV15-B636 This pump cost ~$156 in 2011. Just checked price now an it is $225. I determined it was the small diaphragm that was leaking but Aquajet did not sell just the diaphragm (probably a $0.10 cent part, small round rubber piece). I did find a part number for the pressure switch, bought it from tractor supply, and it came with the diaphragm. So I just used the diaphragm and that stopped the leak. Later when getting ready to leave on a trip the pump didn't turn on when I pressed the switch the pump would not start, so tapped the pressure switch with screw driver and it started but then would not stop. I had to stop the pump with a switch and then it was inconsistent at to whether it would stop with the switch. So I thought I'd just replace the pressure switch all together since I had one. WRONG, once replaced I couldn't adjust the pump to stop, there is a small screw you can turn in and out. So I called Aquajet and talked to their support line who said the pressure switch, even though it has an adjustment screw, was not adjustable. It had to be on a test stand to adjust. So that pretty much means the pump is a throw away. Won't buy that again. So I left on my trip and figured I do something when I got on the road. Stopped at a RV store in Grand Junction CO and bought the Lippert Pump. Not sure if it is adjustable or not, if it isn't and can't be repaired I'd just buy another one or similar. FWIW….based on the history here…this sort of summarizes the history or the AquaTech RV55 Pump. It was used extensively, if not totally from the early 2000’s on most Monaco’s. AquaTech is or was, I think it still exists, as a pump supplier in California. They had two marketing arms and I don’t know which came first…. Field as in agricultural chemical pumps and RV’s. Some here have the original instructions for the RV55 pump. There was a procedure to adjust the diaphragm pressure regulator. Eventually, AquaTech stopped publishing those instructions and if you needed a nee pressure regulator, you shipped the pump to AquaTech and they installed s new regulator and flow tested it on a setup bench and calibrated it. Most of the original AquaTech pumps on Monaco’s did not come with an accumulator and the instructions as well as tech support said NOT needed or NOT TO BE USED. The original Dynasty and UP that came with the pump used an accumulator in the pump circuit. The 2008 (I think) and the 2009 Camelots (I KNOW) did not have an accumulator. I spoke to the AquaJet Tech in 2010 and he warned me to REMOVE an accumulator as it was not necessary and AquaTech did not recommend it. SO, bottom line... You may or may not have an accumulator depending on the model and the years. There was a lot of discussion on this later on....when, or if, Monaco removed the accumulator from the upper ends is something that is difficult to pin down. Over the years, owners have debated the need or the value of an accumulator. As long as the accumulator had a good diaphragm and was “water tight”, the folks that were using were satisfied. Sort of a Ford v Chevy debate Eventually, AquaTech sold the rights to Remco or Lippert. I believe that AquaTech still manufactured the pumps for Lippert. Originally, Remco had absolutely no tech support, as expected, for the pumps and AquaTech was fielding questions. Right before AquaTech sold the RV55 pump, there was a planned redesign or manufacturing improvement. The pressure regulator cover was to be sealed with an RTV sealer to make the assembly more robust and less likely to failure. No idea if that change was implemented after Remco bought them. I had a failure, as did a few, early on in 2010 and Aquatech warranted mine and replaced it. They recommended that you CUT OFF the inline fuse holder on the aftermarket pumps as the OEM manufacturers had upstream circuit protection. I didn’t catch that and my inline failed and I cut it out. That was probably in 2013 and it is still working today. I DO wonder if Remco has outsourced the pump or if AquaTech is still the supplier. AquaTech still makes an identical, but NOT Potable water approved, agricultural pump and it is readily available. That’s the synopsis of dealing with pump issues where I had a “flood” of septic water in the wet bay and shorted out the electronics. But, I disassembled snd sprayed WD-40 to get rid of the moisture and then contact cleaner and resealed the pressure regulator cover snd it works and I carry that as a spare… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBRV.0 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said: Most of the original AquaTech pumps on Monaco’s did not come with an accumulator and the instructions as well as tech support said NOT needed or NOT TO BE USED. That is not surprising, even if there is a benefit to having a tank. It becomes a cost issue for OEM or a sales issue for replacement cases. Imagine if you don't have a tank and the replacement pump mentions having or needing one. I believe pumps will work without one, just not as long, therefore removing a working tank would be counter productive. Before I added air to my failed tank a few months ago, I was constantly annoyed at hearing the thumping of the pump every time ANY amount of water was drawn. We were not hooked up to a constantly pressured water supply line, thus was relying on the fresh water tank and pump. Edited March 4 by DBRV.0 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterskier_1 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said: Most of the original AquaTech pumps on Monaco’s did not come with an accumulator and the instructions as well as tech support said NOT needed or NOT TO BE USED. I can't speak to the brand of the pumps, but I believe all Monaco Dynasty and up (Exec & Sig) came with accumulator tanks since the 1990's. I know my '97 Dynasty had one, as does my 05 Exec. I have not looked to see what brand pump I have - the Previous Owner replaced it in 2018, just before I bought it along with a lot of other items (new A/C and 10-button thermostats, new 600D Aquahot, new inverter and 1000 Watts Solar, Amish cooling core, Samsung microwave, all LED lighting inside, dash radio/monitor, GPS). I know several other with Dynasty's or Exec's and all have accumulator (sometimes called "pressure" or "expansion") tanks. -Rick N. Casa Grande, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J A Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 I removed the accumulator tank and replaced it with a 12" loop of water line. Worked great 10 years full timing. 3.1416 X 12= length required. No pulsing or pump damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Our 2000 came with a Jabsco accumulator tank and I give it at least a partial credit for keeping the original Shurflo pump still running. We almost exclusively dry camp so the pump and tank get good use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Pratt Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 The new Remco-Aquajet 55RV water pump can still be adjusted. When you are looking at the head of the pump-(refer to pictures in prior post), The flat cover on the lower left of the head is the pressure switch and the Switch cover with the wires connected to it on the right of the head is the cut off switch. They both have an Allen screw for adjustment. The left one is 3/32" hex and the right one is 1/16". The older pumps had the electronics mounted on the head of the pump. in the later pumps they moved the electronics under the pump and sealed it with a gasket and cover plate. On the new Aquatec pumps the electronics are still mounted under the motor, but are sealed in Epoxy. There is no electronics in the head, the switch that has the wires connected to it is just a micro-switch to turn on and shut off the motor. Below are the instructions to adjust the pump to stop it from pulsing and is the same with the new pumps. Remco seals the Allen adjusting screws with RTV. Just pick the RTV out to adjust. I have replaced at least four Water Pumps with the Aquajet 55RV and have had to adjust everyone after installation. Steps to Adjust the Pressure Setting of a Aquajet Water Pump Locate the housing at the end of your water pump where the pipe is connected. The housing should have two red wires coming from it. There you should find an Allen screw (sometimes called a hex-key screw). Turn on your shower. Turn the pressure adjustment screw clockwise to stop the cycling. Turn off the shower to test. If the pump doesn’t shut off, turn the screw slightly counterclockwise until the pump stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I just had the same symptom Doug reported recently. Went to check on the accumulator tank pressure and water ran out of the schrader valve. I like what the tank does for us so I went shopping for a replacement. Got a shock finding out that the OEM Jabsco tank sells for well over $200, even over $300. What? It appears to be same as the one in our house that I could get for $28 (@Zoro) just not in blue. Works the same. Monaco certainly did not go cheap on this one... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBRV.0 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) A quick update. I was not aware that available are pumps that are designed to be truly variable, thus eliminating the need for a tank. I believe they are called VSD pumps. For example, search for "VSD pump 12V". Another option I found is a smart electronic box that apparently can be added to any pump - [edit: maybe ...] even those that have a bad pressure switch, because it has its own pressure sensor on the pump's water output. This is wired directly to the motor's wires. Here is an example of a "$180" IRVWPC smart switch: Edited April 9 by DBRV.0 added a "maybe" clause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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