2004 Camelot PDQ w/Cummins ISL 400

[Bob Wightman]

Hello Group!

Looking for feedback:  We currently own a 2004 Knight 34PDD but are considering up-sizing to a 2004 Camelot 40PDQ to have a little extra room for when we have guests.  I have found one for sale that I am negotiating with now but there is very little literature online about this model, and the Monaco Brochure I found shows this year and model with a Cummins ISC 8.3L 350hp motor.  The seller of the Camelot I'm considering says (and has sent me pictures of) that his has a ISL 8.9L 400hp motor...anybody else out there have this setup?  I tow a lot (and heavy) and my current ISC 8.3L 330hp does a great job...but more power when towing is always better.  I would appreciate any feedback on this and links to spec info.  Thanks in advance! 

[Walker]

Isl 400 is a great engine, but the early ones had oiling issues.  There is a serial number cutoff of when it was fixed.  At the earliest was 2006, but I think it was midway 2007.  These "bad"engines run great, then they don't.  

[klcdenver]

The po could have possibly had the motor reprogrammed to put out 400hp. Get the serial number from him and check with Cummins would be the best. If it is a true ISL400 on certain serial numbers there was a recall for a connecting rod failure but was for 2007 models. It could have been retrofitted to a ISL400 but not likely.

[Tom Cherry]

Sales Brochures...but READ THEM AND THEN MY FINAL COMMENT...

2004 Camelot - 

https://www.monacocoach.com/resources/media/user/1476903642_brc_pdf.pdf

Cummins® ISC 350 HP Diesel Engine with Allison® 3000 MH 6-Speed World Transmission and Electronic Shifter Torque: 1,050 lbs./ft. Max. Net at 1,424 RPM Cubic Inch Displacement: 504.5"/8.3L

2004 Knight

https://www.monacocoach.com/resources/media/user/1469212232_brc_pdf.pdf

Cummins® ISC 330 Engine with Allison® 3000 MH 6-Speed World Transmission and Electronic Shifter Chrome Exhaust Tip – Engine Cubic Inch Displacement: 540.5"/8.3L

2005 Camelot

https://www.monacocoach.com/resources/media/user/1469131904_brc_pdf.pdf

Aluminum Side-Mount Radiator with CAC Cooler Engine Displacement 8.8L/540 Cu. In. Torque: 1,200 lbs./ft. Max. Net at 1,300 RPM

YES..if HIS 2004 Camelot has a SIDE radiator then he has a LATE YEAR Camelot.  It started out as an early 2005 and it got "Shoved Out" prematurely.  Therefore it is, in reality, a 2005.  Monaco "registered" or labeled the MH based on their INTERNAL date of "production" It is NOT uncommon and I know a Dealer who specially ordered THREE 2008 Navigators....as in that is the MODEL year, but they had to have the OLDER (non DPF 2007 Engines in them).  I was told that I could get a 2009 Camelot right before the bankruptcy...but chose one in stock.  I had the build sheet and it had a residential refrigerator. It also had a DYNASY ISL and not the Camelot ISL... The Dynasty had a Jake Brake....  When I called Monaco to find out WHAT model of Res Refer, they told me it had been "in the womb" too long...and it was actually a 2010.

Get the SN of the engine.  It is on the Build Sheet that the owner MAY have or get the SN from his engine and call Cummins.  The 2004 Camelot shows a Side Radiator in a photo but it is not called out....which may not mean anything as Side Radiator

 

[Dr4Film]

The attached brochure states that the Cummins ISC-350 was standard and it doesn't give any option for an upgrade. Possibly the original owner had ordered it with a special upgrade to the ISL-400.

2004 Monaco Camelot Brochure.pdf

[Bob Wightman]

 This is the picture he sent me from his engine bay. 

[Walker]

I personally would not take a chance on that engine. I think the good ones had black valve covers, but definitely go by the engine  serial number.

[Bob Wightman]

Dr4Film, it certainly is possible that it could have been special ordered with the larger motor...but you would think that option would have been shown in the brochure.  I met the current owner last weekend and got to see the coach, however at that time he was having "Cold Feet" about selling it so I didn't get to look into the engine compartment to see how everything looked.  The seller was kind enough to show us the interior so my wife could see/feel what a 40 footer with 4 slides felt like (she of course liked it), since then i've been searching for something like it and kept seeing the sale post up.  I contacted him again, now we are negotiating to see if we can come up with an agreement.  Since this rig and power plant don't match I figured somebody might know something about this option, and the seller is not the original owner so he would't know if the motor was special ordered.

[Bob Wightman]

I'm on a Monaco owners FB page too, asked the same question there and think I got the answer.  I think the VIN tag says 2004 but its actually a 2005 model where the larger motor is an upgrade option.  I'm going to reach out to the seller to see what his title says.

[Happycarz]

The engine number says it all. Go look for this data tag attached to the engine. Then you will know for sure. 

If the seller has the original file box that came with the coach, there should be a build sheet in it listing the part numbers and serial numbers of each component. 

Sometimes that sheet is pasted to the inside of one of the cabinet doors.

 

[allphase8]

44 minutes ago, Happycarz said:

The engine number says it all. Go look for this data tag attached to the engine. Then you will know for sure. 

If the seller has the original file box that came with the coach, there should be a build sheet in it listing the part numbers and serial numbers of each component. 

Sometimes that sheet is pasted to the inside of one of the cabinet doors.

 

 

Do drive that or is it a show engine compartment.  Disgustingly  clean and shinny. (:o)LOL

[Happycarz]

I’ll take that as a compliment. Thank you. 

It gets well used. I took factory delivery with 20 miles on the odometer and now have 86,000 miles on it. 
I have no oil leaks and find it easier to keep track of things if it is clean. And, having it parked at home makes it one step away. 
 

Now for the top side of the engine.
 

[96 EVO]

That turbo blanket has been freshly Armour-All'd, hasn't it 😁?

[Donflem]

😳dam I have a brand new Ford Maverick with 1200 miles on it that doesn’t look that clean.lol👍

[Happycarz]

Ben, that was when it was new last year.  I previously had a silver blanket on originally. But, after removing it a few time to replace the manifold to turbo gasket twice, and then again when I had to decarbon the pistons, it was deteriorating. ThIs time I chose black. 

It’s not quite as pretty as when new, but sure does keep the bedroom cool after a days driving.

It took me a couple of times to find the reason of blown gasket, hence low turbo pressure. But in the end, blind pig finds acorn.

 

 

[Fred L]

I’m impressed with with the back and forth of each participant here. Each has knowledge of the discussion, at least I think. Seems to me me we were talking about a 409 ho vs the 350 ho Cummins and how to determine what you have. 
The way Monaco built and tagged them really plays a part. I have a 2004 purchased in 2003 at a trade show. Unit has been perfect, absolutely no complaints on its operation. 
Anyway, if you bag on the 2004 you’re looking at, mine is available. Already listed in the Coaches for sale area. 

[Tom Cherry]

6 hours ago, Bob Wightman said:

I'm on a Monaco owners FB page too, asked the same question there and think I got the answer.  I think the VIN tag says 2004 but its actually a 2005 model where the larger motor is an upgrade option.  I'm going to reach out to the seller to see what his title says.

I’m not disagreeing, but I know what Monaco did and did not do….and there was very little standardized protocol.  If an individual wanted a special option, just because it was NOT in the brochure does not mean that it did not have “special” options.  Dealer’s would submit special needs and there was a form or means to do that.  Monaco typically handled them and quoted them and then never lost any money…so, you wanne….you payee….you getee.  Case in point.  A 2007 HR Navigator had a custom interior makeover….added features only found on a Signature….and also had custom equipment made or modified.  A NASCAR driver had a Navigator that was fancier than a Sig.  I knew the GM of the HR dealership.  He speced out the MH….But the most “crazy” option was to change the color of the lighted keypads (the Intellitec MPX ones).  An electronic shop or maybe Intellitec swapped the LED’s to BLUE….his lucky color….Yellowish was the standard and he did not want a MH with the “orange/yellow” caution lights.  YES….they did it.

NOW…back to reality or logical possibilities.  I do NOT know if REV still has the Monaco Data or VIN number files.  Many “started out” as say, an 08…got 07 engines…that was common and Monaco also got to use up the engines that no longer met the “model” year EPA requirements.  The MH industry was not as tightly regulated.

So, first call…REV. See if they have the VIN data base and the Engine SN. Then call Cummins.  See the birth date on it.  Also ask if there are any open recalls on it.  Also ask if there was a “factory” recall for it that the SN fell into the range and whether not Cummins would or could do the “recall”.

Rev should also tell you the MODEL YEAR.  If you call the State where the MH is titled with the license plate, and tell them you want to verify the MH, they will.

I can easily see a pre 2005 ISL in a 2004….especially if it was a late 2004….and it got stranded and ended up 2005 “intended” engine…especially if Monaco had run out of the 04 engines…but was was titled as an 04..

[timaz996]

3 hours ago, Happycarz said:

The engine number says it all. Go look for this data tag attached to the engine. Then you will know for sure. 

If the seller has the original file box that came with the coach, there should be a build sheet in it listing the part numbers and serial numbers of each component. 

Sometimes that sheet is pasted to the inside of one of the cabinet doors.

 

I full-time in my coach Harry, and 95% of that is dry camping up in forest areas or the desert so my engine will never be that clean. Just dirty and no oil leaks.

[Happycarz]

And to further that engine availability, is what I bought. When I ordered my 08 Camelot in April 2007, I was give the choice of the a 2006 ISL or a 2007 ISL, which had 25 more horsepower and was first year of DPF. That was a no brainer, I picked the tried the true.  And, fortunately the 2006 ISL did not have an EGR system like some of the earlier ISL’s.

I tried, begged, pleaded with Monaco to put both air leveling and hydraulic leveling jacks on my coach. NOPE! You get one or the other.

But they did let my wife mix and match the fabrics, picking from the different Camelot patterns for a slight up charge.

[Jdw12345]

My 2 cents on this thread,

 personally I wouldn’t upgrade to a larger coach/engine combination unless it has a engine brake, especially if you are towing heavy as stated, if you ask the current owner if it has an engine brake or an exhaust brake (hopefully he knows the difference) it might determine what power plant it really has, I don’t believe ISC’s had the engine brake as an option, only exhaust brakes, to my understanding, If it’s a transplanted engine it might not have an engine brake( lots of reprogramming with transmission and what not),  I would think that if it has the engine brake it most likely was built that way. Jmo.

[96 EVO]

4 minutes ago, Jdw12345 said:

My 2 cents on this thread,

 personally I wouldn’t upgrade to a larger coach/engine combination unless it has a engine brake, especially if you are towing heavy as stated, if you ask the current owner if it has an engine brake or an exhaust brake (hopefully he knows the difference) it might determine what power plant it really has, I don’t believe ISC’s had the engine brake as an option, only exhaust brakes, to my understanding, If it’s a transplanted engine it might not have an engine brake( lots of reprogramming with transmission and what not),  I would think that if it has the engine brake it most likely was built that way. Jmo.

Monaco sold plenty of ISL equipped coaches with an exhaust brake!

I know..... I own one! 

[Jdw12345]

32 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Monaco sold plenty of ISL equipped coaches with an exhaust brake!

I know..... I own one! 

That’s interesting, why wouldn’t the put an engine brake on that caliber of motor coach?

[96 EVO]

1 minute ago, Jdw12345 said:

That’s interesting, why wouldn’t the put an engine brake on that caliber of motor coach?

Probably to save a few $$.

They were a strange builder in those years, offering high end equipment in mid tier coaches, that other builders only offered in their top coaches.

Then they would go cheap and install exhaust brakes in the same coach!

[FLynes]

8 hours ago, Happycarz said:

I’ll take that as a compliment. Thank you. 

It gets well used. I took factory delivery with 20 miles on the odometer and now have 86,000 miles on it. 
I have no oil leaks and find it easier to keep track of things if it is clean. And, having it parked at home makes it one step away. 
 

Now for the top side of the engine.
 

Harry, you are a man after my own heart. I was raised that a clean engine is a happy and healthy engine. When I was a young Soldier, my unit had Gama Goats, and mine had the cleanest, leak-free Detroit 3-53. Same thing, when I was a UH-1 crewchief. Every time I take any of my vehicles to the dealer for maintenance, everything gets thoroughly washed. It’s been my experience that mechanics put forth a little more effort, if they don’t have to get filthy in your engine bay.

My mom, who was a realtor, always said that you can always tell how clean a person’s house is by how clean they keep their car.

[Jdw12345]

17 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Probably to save a few $$.

They were a strange builder in those years, offering high end equipment in mid tier coaches, that other builders only offered in their top coaches.

Then they would go cheap and install exhaust brakes in the same coach!

That’s true, the economy was starting to get wonky in 07-08!