rajchapman Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 I need to repair the scissor hinge on the front door of my coach. I remember that Randy Bergen repairs the hinges and also would supply the “Tinner’s” rivet if you wanted to repair it yourself. I tried to contact Randy Bergen however his email address came back as non-deliverable. I then tried to contact Mikee Baul at his email, but have not heard anything from him. Does anyone know of another source for the correct size “Tinner’s” rivet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmw188 Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 3/16”x3/8 or 1/2” long is what I used. Buy a large rivet gun from AMZ or Harbor Freight. Don’t use alum they won’t pull down tight enough. BE SURE TO PULL IT DOWN SQUARELY not on an angle. You don’t need SS rivets steel is fine but don’t use alum. You may need to knock down the pulling pin after it’s set with a file. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman3 Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 One other option is to remove the scissor hinge and put in a gas strut. We did that years ago and it has worked very well. Door stays open when we want it open - even with a breeze. If you want details - let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacwjames Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 I removed mine and was able to repair by putting the rivet on a sledge hammer and then using another large hammer and flatten the rivet. I also took the little tab that catches the door and bend it up a little, which added some friction to the scissor. Did that ~6 years ago and still working fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaz996 Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 (edited) I also went with a gas strut and like it much better. Did it four years ago. Edited May 8 by timaz996 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hex_nut Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 I was also unable to find a "Tinners" rivet. I went to my local Ace hardware and bought a standard mushroom head rivet in the correct diameter. It was of course too long, but a hacksaw quickly corrected that. A few minutes with a bench grinder created the 45 degree chamfer required to fit the hinge and removed the top of the mushroom on the rivet. A sledge hammer on an anvil produced a nice set to the rivet in the hinge. It has worked nicely for the last 5 years for a total cost of 79 cents and a little time in the garage. Good luck. Richard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenW Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 X 3 on the gas strut. Tried several things with the scissor hinge with no lasting success. Very happy with the change, but just in case I left the scissor hinge in place (disconnected from one side) on top of the door and secured with gorill tape. Sounds like either way works well, good luck. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hex_nut Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 These are often referred to as counter-sunk or flush-mount rivets, if you are looking for them online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 Also called "TINNERS RIVETS" they are usually HARDER (been heat treated) or are made from a harder base steel. The rivets in the Monaco door scissors are soft...way to soft. The TWO HAMMER trick works, as long as one is careful. MOST of the Monaco techs, though, used the old "BEND IT UP OR DOWN". That actually made it worse and sometimes the scissors hit. Bending the entire pivot point does have a SHORT term benefit as the contact points are different and they are NOT as worn....but if you keep doing that, then there is NO FRICTION in the joint. SO...do NOT bend up or down to correct. IF there is contact or rubbing...correct that. There have been TWO successful long term fixes....and that is NO SLAM on actually beating it or flattening the rivet. IF you catch it soon enough, the the flattening or creating more tension will work. BUT...past that, for the WORN or abused ones.. Replacing the Rivet with a Tinner's rivet. We had a very learned member....he knew Monaco and had one of the FEW Crown Royal bus conversions. He ran a small business and was a "character". He bought a box of the proper size Tinner's Rivets. He had a nice hydraulic press in his shop. He installed a NEW Rivet and carefully seated or compressed it for the right tension. That Rivet did NOT FAIL....many members...perhaps 50 or more had their's fixed...and Mikee's fix....never went bad. The second was an individual in Tennessee. Randall Bergen. He was a parts manager for an car dealership. He found that there was a "replaceable" rivet that had an OEM (Chevy or Ford or whoever) and it was exactly the right size. NOT having the hydraulic press, he became an expert at installing and seating or peening or compressing the new OEM rivet. Again. 100% success. He was on IRV2 and other places. He fixed mine at least 10 years ago. It still has OEM tension and holds the door open during gusty winds. Did a search of the topics.... HERE is a 2022 post. TRIED his cell....said unavailable...BUT NOT Disconnected. Don't know about the email..... Randall Bergen, 249 Cherry Blossom Trail, Dandridge, TN. 37725 - repairs scissor arms - $40. This was a few years ago, so I'd call or email him to check if he is still repairing them. 865-323-1277 rjb4jcpa@gmail.com DO NOT KNOW if he is still alive.. but....he would be my first try....as I KNOW what he did and the rivet he used is a LONG LASTING FIX... That's my history. The folks that have installed a strut are pleased... SO, whatever works for you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rajchapman Posted May 8 Author Share Posted May 8 Thank you all for the responses. I will try to contact Randall to see if he is still repairing the arms. Again thanks for all the assistance. Just got a responce from Mickee and was told that he sold all his remainding rivets to someone on this group several years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmw188 Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 4 hours ago, jacwjames said: I removed mine and was able to repair by putting the rivet on a sledge hammer and then using another large hammer and flatten the rivet. I also took the little tab that catches the door and bend it up a little, which added some friction to the scissor. Did that ~6 years ago and still working fine. Well I guess I wasn’t replying to the rivet in question sorry for any confusion. I was referring to the rivets that hold the hinge to the top of the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted May 8 Share Posted May 8 5 minutes ago, tmw188 said: Well I guess I wasn’t replying to the rivet in question sorry for any confusion. I was referring to the rivets that hold the hinge to the top of the door. Thanks for the clarification....but it did provide more INSIGHT into the TYPICAL issue. I used SS Pop Rivets and they are a PITA to remove....and you also need the long handled tool....a pliers type will destroy itself....if you give it enough brute force... BEEN THERE... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution David Pratt Posted May 9 Solution Share Posted May 9 RV Door Hinge Swing-Arm Locking The Entry Door Scissor Arm or Door Check issue has been a common topic on this Forum and Other Forums for years. Some folks have opted to replace the Scissor Arm with a Gas Shock. Others have R&R the Scissors and replaced the rivet or squelched the rivet on the arm. The scissor arm was a great idea. The arm is still used on most all Class A Motorcoaches. It hides out of sight when the door is closed and has worked ok, but it had one major design flaw; The way the scissor was engineered is that when you open the door all the way at the end of the arm half there is a raised bump that mate with a recessed detent in the outer half of the arm to hold the door open. The problem with this design is over time it will stretch the rivet and the arm becomes loose and sloppy and needs to be repaired or replaced. Look at the first picture and you will see what I am describing. There has been a better Mouse Trap out there that the permanently does away with the loose/sloppy scissor issue and it is a Re-Engineered Scissor. The Scissor was used exclusively on the FORETRAVEL Motor Coaches for over 10 years. Newmar has adopted the new scissor arm from ForeTravel and has been installing it on their Class A coaches for the past couple of years. The Scissor Arm does not use a Bump and Detent to hold the door open. Instead it is designed with a locking pin at the end of the outer arm that locks into a machined grove on the inner arm when the door is fully opened. The arms are riveted together just like the Monaco arm but stay parallel when opened and closed and do not put any pressure on the rivet so the arm will not become loose or sloppy with use over time The mounting pads are larger than the other scissor arm and can be modified to fit the entry door by just duplicating the mounting pads on your old arm. I noticed the difference about the scissor arm when comparing it to the one installed on Chris Throgmartins coach and the arm on my Foretravel ih-45. Chris wanted the arm on my coach to replace his worn out scissor arm The arm was purchased from Foretravel back in 2021 and displayed it at the Gathering. The new arm is the Second Picture and you can see the changes to the arm I am discussing. The cost of both arms are a little pricey, but the price of the new arm is about the same as the old arm, around $225.00 retail. The part number for the Foretravel Arm is 001523 and last price listed was $189.00 and the part number for the Newmar arm is 08420452 and is listed for $228.00 and is the same arm. Current Old Entry Door Scissor Arm.pdf Door Hinge Swing-Arm Scissor Locking.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmw188 Posted May 9 Share Posted May 9 Great option Dave. I filed down my bump on the OE slightly because it seemed to be a little too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judi Peterson Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 On 5/8/2024 at 11:35 AM, Rocketman3 said: One other option is to remove the scissor hinge and put in a gas strut. We did that years ago and it has worked very well. Door stays open when we want it open - even with a breeze. If you want details - let me know. Can you give more info on the strut? Brand, part number, etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocketman3 Posted May 12 Share Posted May 12 27 minutes ago, Judi Peterson said: Can you give more info on the strut? Brand, part number, etc? When I did mine in 2021 these are the Amazon parts I ordered: RV Designer G21, Gas Prop Door... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002XM5E6S?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share 10mm Ball-Stud Mounting Brackets... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07QZTSV3G?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share RV Designer G825, Gas Prop... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003YJPIVK?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenster Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 Has anyone successfully installed a gas strut on the entrance Door? Any suggestions or links? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr046 Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 There's at least one "how-to" post on IRV2. You'll need to do a search to find them. - bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klcdenver Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 I have done this to both of my diplomats and very happy with the mod. I always leave the existing scissor just in case the strut should break as a backup to stop door. It is not hard to install and you can get the parts from Amazon. Monaco_door_gas_strut_upgrade.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Cherry Posted May 24 Share Posted May 24 MODERATOR NOTE. It is a requirement to do a search. Using the key words STRUT & DOOR in the search box and choosing “TOPICS” from the EVERYWHERE Drop down provides 3 plus pages of posts covering at least 5 different discussions. https://www.monacoers.org/search/?q=Strut door&quick=1&type=forums_topic Clicking on the above gives the results. There was also a recent discussion on the scissors and also comments on struts with some recent information on an alternative that works well. The new topic has been merged with the ongoing discussion Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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