Woody O Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 The standard valves work great until you put a tire minder on them. First, you need to remove the braided lines from the stems because they are not designed to hold pressure all the time. Once you do that, you are now trying to screw on a minder onto the stem on the outside dually tire, which means you are sticking two fingers thru a rim slot and screw it on without dropping it. Then, when you have to add two to three pounds of pressure you have to remove it, put air in and then reinstall. I've tried to get shorter stems twice when buying tires over the years and got turned down every time because they didn't have in stock and didn't want to order. I know they make shorties that you can turn 180 degrees to make access real easy. So, my question: For the people out there that have changed your stems, what did you get and where can I source them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Hutto Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 I’ve used the braided (stainless steel braid) lines under pressure for years... as do most of the folks I know with RVs. They are always under pressure whether you have a tire minder or not. I’ve never heard they are not designed to hold pressure all the time. Am I missing something? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chargerman Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Don’t know how braided extensions would be used if they were not meant to be under pressure. As Scotty mentioned, I have also used them for years without an issue. Wouldn’t want to try to maintain pressure on the inside tires without them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Bergamo Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Woody, here is a web site that allows you to get rid of the problematic braided lines and replace the longer valve stems with the shorter valve stems that you refer to. Did this on my coach with outstanding results. Hope this helps. https://yourtireshopsupply.com/category/796/dually-valve-kits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J A Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Any one tried this product? COLBY VALVE - PERMANENT TIRE VALVE SYSTEM. Any one used a Long valve stem from the inner dual to and thru the opening in the outer wheel rim with a Rubber Valve Stem Stabilizer with a Stainless Braided Line? 3 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said: I’ve used the braided (stainless steel braid) lines under pressure for years... as do most of the folks I know with RVs. They are always under pressure whether you have a tire minder or not. I’ve never heard they are not designed to hold pressure all the time. Am I missing something? I wonder if the performance of the braided line[s] is different from an application of a Full Timer, Part Timer, or Some Timer RV User? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody O Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 Okay, I must have misunderstood the information that I had been reading back a while ago. I was told by multiple people that the braided hoses were not very reliable, so I took mine off. Maybe, I might dig mine back out and put them back on because it would take the hassle out of adjusting air pressure. Good to hear. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
96 EVO Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I had this dually stem kit installed the last time I had the drive axle tires changed. https://yourtireshopsupply.com/product/3451/dl4m-chrome-duallyvalve-dl4m Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Nodine Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Woody O said: Okay, I must have misunderstood the information that I had been reading back a while ago. I was told by multiple people that the braided hoses were not very reliable, so I took mine off. Maybe, I might dig mine back out and put them back on because it would take the hassle out of adjusting air pressure. Good to hear. Thanks! Woody, I have heard many times the same thing that the braided extensions are problematic and should be discarded. That said, we have had this coach for just over 13 years and put over 100K miles on it. When we purchased the coach it was one year old and had a leaking braided extension on one of the rear tiers. We replaced it and have continued to use the braided extensions for last 13 years with no problems. Edited November 25, 2020 by Bob Nodine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veraken Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I have the non-flow thru sensors. I removed the "theft lock" by just removing the 4 screws holding the cap. This makes it much easier to put the sensor on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTerry Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I have used the braided stainless steel extensions for 18 years now. Have had one develop a leak. Just make sure the installers putting new tires on are careful with them. If them remove them and twist and bend the lines on older ones the rubber will crack inside and leak. Replaced one about eight years ago. These really make doing your daily air pressure check easy. They do make longer stems for the inside tire if you don't want these. A good commercial truck tire place will have these. Another thing to check is to replace the o-rings where the stems go through the wheels when you get new tires. They get hard and brittle and will leak a very slow leak that is difficult to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 Braided air line extensions are fine until you have one that leaks without realizing it. If you stay on top of the psi in your inside dual tires then you may get by with braided extensions. But if you don't then the outcome can get rather expensive. I chose to remove any possibility of that potential problem by installing Borg one-piece tire valve stems back in 2010 when I had all new tires installed. Have not been disappointed. Link posted above by Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivylog Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 16 years on 04 Dynasty and 12 years 08 Navigator... no problems plus the TPMS will let you know if you have a leak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonwink Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 I wanted quality so I bought the genuine "WheelMaster" brand braided extensions. Shortly after buying a TPMS, I left on a short trip and noticed the TPMS in alarm. I'd had trouble with all the sensors reporting and didn't pay any attention. When I got ready to return home, I checked the tires and found the inside dual completely flat and off the rim. The braid is only cosmetic. There's a plastic tube inside them. The tube had a hole in it allowing all the air to escape. I called road service and was told it would take an hour and half to get to me. While waiting, I had nothing better to do, so I took off the wheel liner in preparation. Then I figured, why not use my jacks to raise the tires off the ground? That went well, there was plenty of time so why not see if my 18v Ryobi impact would loosen the lugs? Bingo! The lugs were off (I've got an F53 Ford chassis). Still had a long wait before road service would show. I pulled the outer tire off and coaxed inner one off too. I got out my air compressor and tired several times to reseat the bead without any luck. I found a way to support the assembly by the wheel and used some spray soap to successfully get the tire to take air. By the time I got the tires back on and lugs tight. The job was done so I called road service back and cancelled the call. I looked around the campground and saw their truck just showing up. Oh well. I haven't bought anymore extenders but if I do, they'll be the plain rubber hose style so I can tell if there's any deterioration. I've been sticking my hand through the hole in the rim to put air in and screw on the TPMS sensor for the inner dual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonwink Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I found the second Wheelmaster braided extension for the inner dual on the other side of my Trek has failed. That's two for two. I will never buy another braided extension. The tire was completely flat and off the rim - just like the other side when I found it. At least I found it sitting in my driveway 3 weeks before heading out for the winter. I had to take both tires off and squirt the wheel with a soapy solution and fiddle with it after taking the valve core out to get it seal on the wheel again. It's holding 95psi with no signs of any other leak. I see Wheelmaster also sells a 2 ply rubber hose extension. I think it will last longer than the tubing with a braided jacket. I wanted to stay with a name brand extension so I ordered the Wheelmaster 8006. It's the two longer hoses for the inside duals. While I had the wheels off, I slipped the Centramatic balancers on to give them another try. The only trouble with them on, it's even harder to get at the inner valve stem - which is the only reason I ordered extensions again. Without them, I'll have to take the outer wheel off to adjust the pressure in the inner tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 So now you have worked on both inner dual wheels having had both go flat. That would have been the time to install the solid one piece valve stems from Borg I had mentioned earlier. Plus I have Balance Masters on my rear dual wheels and use the Tire SafeGuard TPMS on all my wheels. I have never had to fiddle with my tires except for setting cold psi's when running the country in extreme climates. Good luck with those extensions and because you have had these tire problems I would STRONGLY recommend purchasing a TPMS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poohbear Posted March 20, 2021 Share Posted March 20, 2021 I use these on my outside dual and the tag wheel and straight one on the inside dual Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr046 Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 I've been battling this also . . . . PO had installed TireMinder TPMS. On the fronts the sensors push the cores into the stems. When removing the sensors to add air (or double check with a gauge) the stems gush out air. New cores don't help, but I can back out the core and screw it back in and it will seal. Set the air, re-install the sensor and repeat next time I need to second guess the TPMS sensor. I'm afraid to check the back wheels because the outer wheel sensor is pointed into the middle of the tire. The only way to access is to crawl under and blindly stick an arm between the tires. The inner tire sensor is the same access problem. If I have to fiddle with either inner or outer valve cores it'll be challenging. So I bought the Wheel Masters 8110A 4 hose set . . . . and discovered the left side inner sensor isn't aligned with the hub cover (mounting tabs are already on the hub cover). And the inner stem isn't 180 degrees from the outer valve stem. That outer wheel will need to be rotated slightly (and hub cover aligned). On the right side everything is aligned. Two different tire guys? *THEN* discovered none of the tire tools from the F53 are compatible. The joys of a new coach! So on the way are the socket (1 5/16), some 3/4" extensions and a 750 ft lb torque adapter (electronic type). I have a 4 ft breaker bar to use on it, but probably won't arrive before next Friday (the next trip). RM R8RR - 500 ft lbs, right? I'm considering the gutentite method. The saga will continue . . . . Best, - bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr4Film Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 500 ft/lbs sounds about right. Also, I highly recommend purchasing and installing Borg Tire Stems minimally for the rear but when I did it back in 2010 I chose to purchase the fronts too. No more problems with potential leaks and no more being a contortionists to check air psi or installing TPMS. 2010 is when I had all new tires installed with Dyan Beads, a new TPMS (Doran - long gone now, worthless POS) and new Borg Tire Stems. I have since gone with Toyo Tires, the Tire SafeGuard TPMS and Balance Masters for tire balancing. Love the combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpasetto Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 4 hours ago, Dr4Film said: 500 ft/lbs sounds about right. Also, I highly recommend purchasing and installing Borg Tire Stems minimally for the rear but when I did it back in 2010 I chose to purchase the fronts too. No more problems with potential leaks and no more being a contortionists to check air psi or installing TPMS. 2010 is when I had all new tires installed with Dyan Beads, a new TPMS (Doran - long gone now, worthless POS) and new Borg Tire Stems. I have since gone with Toyo Tires, the Tire SafeGuard TPMS and Balance Masters for tire balancing. Love the combination. I recently got the Borg dually valve kit to get rid of those braided extensions on the drive axle. One was leaking a bit when I had a tire service do the changeover. The young man who did the job was very careful and skillful installing the inner valve and the rubber stabilizers. Glad to hear the install of replacement tires went well for you. I was always concerned that some tire shops might be unfamiliar with these stems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonwink Posted April 17, 2021 Share Posted April 17, 2021 (edited) On my Ford chassis with WheelMaster wheel covers, I wanted the best extensions available and bought the WheelMaster SS braided extensions. Both the longer ones for the inner duals failed! Inside the decorative SS braids is a plastic tube that can go bad without any notice. After forcing my hand through the handhole to check the pressures and install my TPMS sensors for awhile, I looked around and ended up going with WheelMaster's #8006 2 ply Goodyear rubber hose extensions. In my opinion, they are a much more reliable solution to extending the valve stems for the inner tire than anything else available except full length metal stems but they have their drawbacks to - like not being able to swap tires around. On my outer tires I use the 135° metal extenders and nothing on my front tires. Works for me. https://www.rvupgradestore.com/Wheel-Master-2-Ply-Rubber-Hose-Kit-p/92-9167.htm Edited April 17, 2021 by Moonwink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr046 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 The saga continues. I was able to install 1 of 4 extenders. Pitiful! One wheel the hub cover tabs line up, but the outer wheel valve stem points into the wheel and the Wheel Master extender just doesn't work unless the valve stem is pointed outwards (or at least not between the wheel). I knew that going in so no surprise. Can the outer valve stem be removed and rotated without destroying the seal / o-ring / whatever? Biggest fear is getting it out and creating another problem. On the other wheel the stems aren't 180 apart and neither line up with the hub cover tabs. Now here's the rub - lug nut socket arrived today when I discovered my 4 ft breaker bar is really 3 ft. *IF* the lug nuts could be loosened with 500 ft lbs that would 170 lbs on the end of that bar. That's 20 lbs more than me! So do I take it to the truck shop or get a bigger breaker bar? I'm not afraid of man-handling the wheel . . . . if it doesn't crush me first! Best, - bob Post Script - All 4 rear valve cores were jammed open when the TPMS sensors were removed. Partially unscrewing the core and re-inserting usually fixes it. One core was physically damaged at the inner tip, and I felt something as I was pulling it out. Balancing bead maybe (and if so the wrong kind). At least all 6 have 90+psi now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonwink Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 The lugs on my Ford f53 chassis only need to go to 150-165 ft lbs so I haven't tried at "torque multiplier" but I've heard others talk about them. Check them out on Amazon and eBay. Maybe someone on here will recommend their favorite. They come with different ratios and I can't find their capabilities listed in the offerings. I don't talk "nm" (newton-meters) https://www.ebay.com/itm/Heavy-Duty-Torque-Multiplier-Set-Wrench-Lug-Nut-Labor-Saving-Lugnut-Remover-Case/353145874077?hash=item523922669d:g:6LQAAOSwnDJe2con Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr046 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 I looked at those but was concerned #1 the anchor leg wouldn't fit against an adjacent lug nut and # 2 still need to re-torque. It would make removal MUCH easier! They say they will mark up the aluminum (thin hub cover is under the lug nuts) but maybe can be fixed with a plate. Hard to say without buying one . . . As for re-torquing . . . . a longer breaker bar, or some good pipe! I already have an electronic torque adapter coming. - bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan K Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 The multiplier works just fine, super easy one hand operation but it is a heavy piece. Torque wrench of either sort is still needed to mount them right. I use an electronic adapter. There is no way to guesstimate 500lbs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr046 Posted April 20, 2021 Share Posted April 20, 2021 (edited) Too bad we can't fit the electronic torque adapter on the multiplier socket! Thanks for the tip. Looks like the next purchase, which of course I will procrastinate until I need to add air again. If I move this valve stem inward (or 90d), is there an o-ring under the nut? Is it a flare type seal? Best, - bob Edited April 20, 2021 by cbr046 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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