Time for New Tires

[zmotorsports]

Well, it's time for new shoes on the coach.  Although I really can't complain, these Michelin's have lasted quite a while and technically they are still in very good condition.  In fact, I can't bring myself to scrap them just yet, so we'll be running them on our yard trailers at work.

 

I thought I'd post up my experience with the Michelin XZE2 Energy tires that I've been running on my coach for the past almost ten years now in the 295/80R22.5 size.  

I put the tires on in spring of 2015 and they had a code date of 2514 (mid-2015).  I know many people replace tires at 5 or 7 years regardless of condition but personally, I don't change them until they start showing signs of deterioration.  Throughout my career as a mechanic and after attending multiple tire seminars I start paying particularly close attention at the 5-year mark but don't replace them until they start showing signs of weathering, cracking, UV or ozone deterioration or anything that raises suspicion.  On my first two coaches I ran Bridgestone R250's and they lasted 6 years and 7 years respectively, actually that's when I sold the coaches and the tires were still in excellent condition.  Some might explain this by being able to park our coach in a climate controlled shop when not being used but that is only a recent option.  Our first two coaches as well as the first ten years of ownership of our current Dynasty have all been parked outside, however, I did keep the tires covered when parked in the driveway at our first home.  I think the best thing for tires is for them running down the road and flexing but the next best thing is keeping them clean and protected.

 

When we bought our 2003 Dynasty in early 2007 it had those horrible Goodyear G670's on the front and drive with G159's on the tag.  I think it came with the G159's and just before we purchased it they installed 6 G670 tires on the drive and steer axles.  We ran those for about 5 years or so and I couldn't wait to get them off the coach as I hated those things and will never run another Goodyear tire if someone paid me to.

 

In early 2015 I did some suspension work on the coach and installed 6 Michelin XZE2 Energy tires on the steer and drive axles and found a couple of couple year old Bridgestone's for the tag axle at the time.  Then in early 2020 I purchased two new Michelin XZE2 Energy steer tires with 1919 code dates and moved the steers to the tag to replace the aging Bridgestone's.  

 

Last spring I waffled on replacing the tires but they were in such good condition I just couldn't pull the trigger so we ran them all of last season, but I told myself I would replace them in spring 2024 regardless of condition as they would be ten years old.  I would not hesitate to run Michelin XZE2 Energy tires again, however, after looking for the past couple of months and being shocked at the pricing, even with the FMCA Michelin Advantage pricing, there is no way I can see a 45%-60% markup between Michelin tires and something like a Bridgestone or Toyo, all of which are a top tier tire and use a high quality casing.  Are the Michelin's a great tire?  Yes.  Are they 45-60 percent better than say a Bridgestone or Toyo?  No, I don't believe they are.

 

I ended up ordering eight (8) Toyo M144's last week and will be putting them on the coach when they arrive in a couple of days but thought I'd show how good of condition these Michelin's are that I just took off.

 

Here are some pictures of just how good of condition these 10 year old tires are.  

 

No sidewall cracking or deteriorating at all on the tag tires.  Code date of 2514.

 

Nor on the drive tires with same code date of 2514.

 

Steer axle tires look great but these are only 5 years old.

 

With a code date of 1919, installed March of 2020.  I put these on just as the pandemic broke out because our tire guy at work informed me that tires were going to be hard to get in some sizes and I didn't want to chance it with the older Bridgestone's on the tag so I ordered two new Michelin's to install on the steer axle and move the 2514 code date Michelin's to the tag axle.

 

Coach up on jackstands and ready to remove tires/wheels.

 

Removing polished stainless steel nut covers.  Wheels need a good polishing as they have some water spots from last year's washing.

 

Drive and tag's removed on street side.  Crossfires off to the side will be reinstalled with the new drive tires.

 

Drives and tag's removed on curb side.

 

Ready to be dismounted when the new Toyo's arrive in a couple of days.

 

Thought I'd show how evenly these wore.  Granted they are about worn out but they are all pretty consistent with close to 60k miles on them.

 

 

 

 

My balance masters removed.  I will give these a good sanding and a coat of epoxy paint before reinstalling.

 

Steer axle Balance Masters will get the same sanding and painting treatment before the new tires are installed.

 

Steer tires are in excellent condition and wearing very evenly.

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for looking.

[Scotty Hutto]

Mike,

Would love to see pics of the inside of the older Michelins once you’ve taken them off the wheels.  I’ve always heard that’s where they deteriorate, but since my wife insists I replace steers at 5 yrs and drives at 7 (long story), I’ve never seen the inside of older tires.  

Just curious.

[Marine Boy]

Thanks for sharing!   Just want to let you know how JEALOUS I am seeing your shop pictures.  It took me a while to get my wife to understand, it is all about the tools and of course work environment.  Would love to hear back with your impression of the Toyo M144 after you put some miles on them.   I have been very happy with mine.

[cbr046]

I'm also a fan of running tires until they start having an issue, but last November I checked my 11 yr old Sumitomo's before leaving on a trip and when I got there, 200 miles later, I had this in my left steer.  This was after driving up to 70 mph down hills on 2 lane in rural Alabama.  I'm lucky, thanks be to God, to be alive . . . . NEVER drive faster than your guardian Angel(s) can fly.  They were with me that day.

I had a spare tire but no tools to remove the wheel, much less tire tools to unmount and mount a tire on the wheel.  There was a tire shop down the road the locals said could fix it, but he didn't open until Monday.  Nope, he didn't do big rig tires but he did recommend this guy about 10 miles away.

I didn't wait for "Blow Out Tire Company" to open but instead drove gingerly another 10 miles to a nearby (big name) interstate truck stop.  The sweet lad there removed the wheel, unmounted the tire and mounted my 20 yr old spare Michelin for $35 cash.  He was happy, I was happy.  What a deal.

I'd been keeping an eye on tires for months (years?).  I ordered new Sumitomos online from Simpletire.com while camping and had them on the coach on Wednesday. 

I chose Sumitomos as an alternative to the more expensive Toyos, which I would choose over Goodyear or Michelin.  This was my 2nd set of Sumis (first set ordered on a previous coach).

Good bet I won't stretch my tires 11 years again.  Ten maybe . . . .

- bob

 

[zmotorsports]

 

27 minutes ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Mike,

Would love to see pics of the inside of the older Michelins once you’ve taken them off the wheels.  I’ve always heard that’s where they deteriorate, but since my wife insists I replace steers at 5 yrs and drives at 7 (long story), I’ve never seen the inside of older tires.  

Just curious.

 

I will try to get pictures.  To be honest, the outside is what gets attacked by UV and ozone.  This is why keeping them flexing and keeping the tires clean as the black carbon on the outside of the tire as it sloughs off and using mild detergents and brush to keep them clean is so important.  This is also why most major tire manufacturers insist on doing a thorough visual annual inspection at 5 years.  Michelin even has a spec' for what size cracks are acceptable and what are not.  The fact that they allow, and actually expect cracking, kind of shocks me because if I see any cracking at all I get them off.

 

 

18 minutes ago, Marine Boy said:

Thanks for sharing!   Just want to let you know how JEALOUS I am seeing your shop pictures.  It took me a while to get my wife to understand, it is all about the tools and of course work environment.  Would love to hear back with your impression of the Toyo M144 after you put some miles on them.   I have been very happy with mine.

 

Thank you.  I will report back on my thought on the Toyo's.  I was going to run the Bridgestone's again as I had them on my first two coaches and really liked them but the R250 is no longer available and I didn't really care for the replacement's tread design when looking at my local tire dealer.  I know a few guys running the Toyo M144's and I value their opinions so that weighed heavily in my decision.  

[Ivylog]

I went  10 years on the rears of my 04 Dynasty based on detailed inspections and then put on the rear of a 10 wheel dump truck for another 5 years…295 Goodyear Marathons made in Germany. Replaced with 11R22.5 Hankooks which are the same diameter and a very common truck tire.

Replaced the 5 year old cracking 295 Michelin’s on the new to me 08 Navigator with 11Rs and 315 Continentals on the front.

Edited March 12 by Ivylog

[Chargerman]

Always enjoy your detailed posts Mike. Thanks again for sharing. I put Toyos on last year and am very happy with them. The only difference that I noticed compared to the Michelin’s is that the Toyos are slightly noisier. Not at a leave that they are irritating and after a couple trips I didn’t even notice it, just slightly different. Ride and handling are the same to me. 
   So happy Spring is close and we will be getting out there again before long

[jacwjames]

I was going to replace my tires just when Covid hit so ended up waiting and by the time I replaced them the front tires were 12 years old and rear were 10 years old, they were Bridgestone tires.    They still looked really good (no pictures) but had plenty of tread left on them, minor cracking on the outside.  I looked at each tire as they were pulled off, insides looked like new, I have no doubt the tire dealer sold them to truckers.

The coach does not move without the TPMS reporting that all tires are at the correct pressure, which I think is key to getting long life out of the tire.

In early 2021 I had a hard time finding tires, I wanted Toyo's but there were NONE to be had so I decided on Yokohama's.  We ran both brands when I worked in the mines and they compared well to the Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgestones we also ran.  I got a bad taste in my mouth from the set of Michelins we ran on our Class C, they weather cracked badly at 4 years and replaced with Bridgetone which I liked but the price got way to high on a tire that I wouldn't actually wear out.  

When I was getting the tires changed a large OTR truck pulled in, must have been a long time customer as the shop owner screamed at his service guys to hop on the truck, man did they jump.  While they were working on his tires I BS'd with the driver, an older gentleman who ran a fleet of truck  He was running Firestones on the front but Yokohama's on the rear.  He saw I was having Yokohamas installed and said he likes them and that any good truck shop should have them in stock.

So I the Yokohama's, 6 tires for $3600 out the door.  So far so good, probably have +20K miles on them, handling is good, ride is good but time will tell. 

[zmotorsports]

14 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

I was going to replace my tires just when Covid hit so ended up waiting and by the time I replaced them the front tires were 12 years old and rear were 10 years old, they were Bridgestone tires.    They still looked really good (no pictures) but had plenty of tread left on them, minor cracking on the outside.  I looked at each tire as they were pulled off, insides looked like new, I have no doubt the tire dealer sold them to truckers.

The coach does not move without the TPMS reporting that all tires are at the correct pressure, which I think is key to getting long life out of the tire.

In early 2021 I had a hard time finding tires, I wanted Toyo's but there were NONE to be had so I decided on Yokohama's.  We ran both brands when I worked in the mines and they compared well to the Michelin, Goodyear, Bridgestones we also ran.  I got a bad taste in my mouth from the set of Michelins we ran on our Class C, they weather cracked badly at 4 years and replaced with Bridgetone which I liked but the price got way to high on a tire that I wouldn't actually wear out.  

When I was getting the tires changed a large OTR truck pulled in, must have been a long time customer as the shop owner screamed at his service guys to hop on the truck, man did they jump.  While they were working on his tires I BS'd with the driver, an older gentleman who ran a fleet of truck  He was running Firestones on the front but Yokohama's on the rear.  He saw I was having Yokohamas installed and said he likes them and that any good truck shop should have them in stock.

So I the Yokohama's, 6 tires for $3600 out the door.  So far so good, probably have +20K miles on them, handling is good, ride is good but time will tell. 

 

 

Thanks Jim.  Yokahama's were another brand that my local tire shop carried and suggested when they told me the Bridgestone R250 was not available in the size I needed.  There was a Bridgestone replacement, I think it was an R268 but don't quote me on that.  He said they sell a lot of the Yokahama's so I had him give me a quote.

 

They were cheaper than the Toyo M144's were by quite a bit from my local shop but my local shop was quite high priced from what I thought on the Toyo's.  I was able to get eight Toyo M144's from tiresdirect.net for $4200 delivered.  I thought that was a pretty decent deal @ $525/each and I can live with that.  My local tire shop will dismount/mount them for $39/each and I won't have to incur the disposal fee because my company is going to take them off my hands and run them on yard trailers, although the steer tires will probably see some additional highway miles yet being only 5-years old and in excellent condition.

 

 

[vito.a]

Mike, thanks for posting.  I always learn from you.

[zmotorsports]

Thanks Vito.

 

We all learn from each other, I don't know everything, but what I have learned over the years I am happy to share.  Just like I am happy to learn from others who are willing to share what they've learned over their years and experiences.

 

[96 EVO]

Hopefully you'll get 8 non-stinkers!

My first pair of M-144's stunk something awful when warm!

[Frank McElroy]

Mike, I had pretty much the same experience as you did.  Last year I replaced my 9 year old Michelin energy tires with Toyo tires.  The Michelins had no side wall cracking.  Over the 9 years I put on about 40,000 miles and sold them to a trucker for $100 each.  Like you, my coach sits in a garage where I keep the humidity at about 50%.  I just couldn't justify the high cost of Michelin tires.

[Ivan K]

Interesting how the Michelin cracking seems to be a hit and miss. My 7 year old Michelins after ~50k miles were still great shape also, when I sold them to a trucker. They spent about 50% time outside. Now on Toyos just because of the cost and they don't and did not smell 😀, made in Japan.

[Frank McElroy]

4 hours ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Mike,

Would love to see pics of the inside of the older Michelins once you’ve taken them off the wheels.  I’ve always heard that’s where they deteriorate, but since my wife insists I replace steers at 5 yrs and drives at 7 (long story), I’ve never seen the inside of older tires.  

Just curious.

After 9 years mine looked new inside.

[zmotorsports]

1 hour ago, Frank McElroy said:

Mike, I had pretty much the same experience as you did.  Last year I replaced my 9 year old Michelin energy tires with Toyo tires.  The Michelins had no side wall cracking.  Over the 9 years I put on about 40,000 miles and sold them to a trucker for $100 each.  Like you, my coach sits in a garage where I keep the humidity at about 50%.  I just couldn't justify the high cost of Michelin tires.

 

 

Looks like your experience with the Michelin's mirrored my own Frank.  Although my coach has technically only been stored indoors for 7 years now, prior to that it was outside 24/7/365.  But I did cover them when sitting in the driveway.  I covered all the tires on my 3 coaches over the past 32+ years or RV'ing.  Even my enclosed trailer tires were covered when not in use and I had similar results with those tires.  In the 25+ years of hauling enclosed race trailers around the western U.S.  they all lasted in the 8-9 year range before starting to crack.  As soon as minor cracks were noted they were replaced.    

[timaz996]

I replaced my 6 year old Firestones last May because of sidewall cracking and I always kept them covered. (maybe the AZ heat) I replaced them with Sumitomo and so far I'm happy. I full time so they do get used. I dropped the covers and am now using a product called "Blak" It's a UV protectant. When you wash the tire you can't rub your thumb on the tire hard and get any black on your skin. There are YT videos on it and I bought mine on Amazon. So far I like it.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=blak+protectant  

[Frank McElroy]

1 hour ago, zmotorsports said:

 

 

Looks like your experience with the Michelin's mirrored my own Frank.  Although my coach has technically only been stored indoors for 7 years now, prior to that it was outside 24/7/365.  But I did cover them when sitting in the driveway.  I covered all the tires on my 3 coaches over the past 32+ years or RV'ing.  Even my enclosed trailer tires were covered when not in use and I had similar results with those tires.  In the 25+ years of hauling enclosed race trailers around the western U.S.  they all lasted in the 8-9 year range before starting to crack.  As soon as minor cracks were noted they were replaced.    

The one thing I noticed in keeping the garage at about 50% humidity year round, nothing rusts.  The metal disk brakes are still nice and shiny even though the coach was last driven 6 months ago.

[96 EVO]

23 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

The one thing I noticed in keeping the garage at about 50% humidity year round, nothing rusts.  The metal disk brakes are still nice and shiny even though the coach was last driven 6 months ago.

Mine are covered in surface rust in a month!

My KIA, in about a week!

[Jdw12345]

It will be interesting to hear your report about the new tires!

[Jdw12345]

For those that may have not seen this, purely for information  

https://www.michelinb2b.com/wps/b2bcontent/PDF/RV_Tires_Brochure.pdf

Edited March 13 by Jdw12345

[dandick66]

20 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Hopefully you'll get 8 non-stinkers!

My first pair of M-144's stunk something awful when warm!

I had the same experience with the Toyo’s - smelled like a barnyard.  I thought I drove through something on the way home from the tire place.  Fortunately, the smell went away, but it took well over a year.

[rustykramermetalfab]

I bought my 06 Dynasty with 9-year-old Michelin's that looked great, they were in climate control when the coach was stored, which from my experience is a big factor for tire age condition.  I opted for Toyos.   I did not drive the coach enough miles with the Michelin's (and the coach was so new to me) to say there is any difference in the driving experience after the tire change. 

My Toyo's smelled like a farm for about a year.  

I will be curious to see what Mike says about his driving experience since he has a lot of miles previous to the change. 

 

[zmotorsports]

1 hour ago, rustykramermetalfab said:

I bought my 06 Dynasty with 9-year-old Michelin's that looked great, they were in climate control when the coach was stored, which from my experience is a big factor for tire age condition.  I opted for Toyos.   I did not drive the coach enough miles with the Michelin's (and the coach was so new to me) to say there is any difference in the driving experience after the tire change. 

My Toyo's smelled like a farm for about a year.  

I will be curious to see what Mike says about his driving experience since he has a lot of miles previous to the change. 

 

 

Agreed Rusty, I think having the coach in a climate controlled environment when not in use plays a huge factor, but also routine usage is just as important.  I have only been fortunate to have our coach stored indoors for the past almost 7 years now as the first 10+ years of it's like as well as our previous two coaches were outside full-time.  The tires were covered however when not in use which wasn't quite as good as being indoors but better than nothing.

 

You guys are making me nervous about the smell of the Toyo's.  I really don't want my shop to smell like some kind of barnyard animal.  Hell, I couldn't wait to get off the d*** farm, let alone go back to having to smell one.  My last shop after working in it for 25+ years took on a smell of race fuel and machining oils and I LOVED it.  Would like to get my new one to smell like that eventually but now I'm nervous I may have introduced a not so pleasant smell into it.  The surrounding farms where we live are all the animal smell I can take.

[MIRIAM]

This post came at a great time!  I, too, have great Michelin tires and I've been torn about replacing my tires for 'no reason' - since, they're in great shape.  I inspect regularly and even go to approved Michelin shop every 6 or so months for them to look with a trained eye.  My date code is 2019, but COVID hit and it sat in climate controlled garage for years.   I've read Michelin's site and they confirm they can last when properly taken care of and just need to inspect them (which they even give you approved places to go) to make sure they're safe.  I just can't bring myself to spend $6K when I don't need to...with the other side of that coin being 'what if'.  I don't see Michelin even suggesting a 'maybe' they can last 10 years, if they didn't believe it.  
 

love this forum!  This newbie is learning a lot from so many!