Tire balance Beads?

[Gweedo]

Good morning all, I'm about to purchase the Toyo M144 most equivalent my now 7=YO Michelins.   My question is,  the tire shop said they use "bead" balancing.  I hadn't heard of this process until I spoke with a buddy.  I guess he has an issue with one wheel every time he fills with air, apparently a bead becomes lodged in the stem not allowing it to seal.  He's got to try over n over until he gets it.  

Have any of you had the bead balancing in place of the normal weighted balancing, isues/no issues with the stems or tire wear?

 

Thnx

[Rodger]

I used them in my old Ford gas burner RV. The trick is just knowing how much to use. It’s a guessing game.

I have always been curious how they work. I went to a vibration analysis school one time and I asked the instructor, who is a well renowned vibration specialist, how they would possibly work. He had never heard of them, but he suspected they worked because automobile designers design the first critical of a suspension to occur at about 30 mph. The phase angle shifts 180 degrees after going through the first critical, which would put “light” side toward the outside of the orbit so to speak. The beads would then find their way there. Interesting anyway. 

[Dr4Film]

Not all "tire balancing beads" are made the same. I have used RV Tire Balancing Dyna Beads purchased from Innovative Balancing in Las Vegas. Thats' the ONLY place I would trust in getting the correct product for your tires.

I had no issues at all with those beads.

I have since converted to Balance Masters as they can be mounted and then transferred to other coaches if needed. Whereas the beads are harder to collect and transfer. Therefore when changing tires with beads you have to use new bags for the tires.

Here is the web site for Innovative Balancing.

DynaBeads Tire Balancing Beads (innovativebalancing.com)

I used the RV-EZO121 packages for the 295/80R/22.5 tires or M144 Toyo's.

[Guest toastmn]

Forget the beads and get yourself some balance rings.  Lifetime use, and reusable.

https://www.centramatic.com/

[Rikadoo]

On my 1st coach i developed a 58 mph shimmy, appeared to be from the RF, it was a sunday, i was trying to get home, the tire shop i found open said they balance tires using the beads ONLY. I said ok, they removed ALL the weights, broke down the tire an thru in bags holding the beads, they told me it will take 50 miles for the bags to break open an disperse…😖 yeah it was worse an figure an out of towner leaves your town, heading home is NOT turning around to have you “try it again” . Got back home had them taken out an balanced with wieghts. Immediately it was better however 100 miles later the shake was back, suspected a tire issue, bought my newer coach. Do your on line investigation, some say they work others dont, i will stick with the wieghts.

[DavidL]

Beads are very common.

1) ensure you  follow the bead manufacturers installation procedure.  This can include putting a valve "filter" in the system.  But most beads now-a-days can be used with standard valves.

2) they work just fine

3) they do what centramatic balance rings do without the cost.

4) There aren't "guesses"...there are recommended quantities for different tire sizes.

The real plus for me is that there then are no weights to corrode the rim, the wheels like nicer, there are no weights to fling off, the wheels are easier to clean and polish.  And, if you are a cheap skate, the beads can be reusable across tire changes (like centramatics).

 

Sounds like Ridadoo had a bad tire.  So, his experience just helped him diagnose he had a bad tire.  PITA for sure, but that's not the fault of the balance system.

Edited April 11, 2023 by DavidL

[Bliksem]

I have had beads in my Toyo M144 steers for the last 4 yrs no problems.

[planodp]

When I swapped the steer with the tag tires I put beads in, the shop didn't do weight. Drove it home and it shake not bad but noticeable. End up putting the Centramatics on. It's much better not perfect.

[Tom Cherry]

Mixed reviews.  I went over that when in California and limited resources. MY TAKE

Do NOT buy tires and let the dealer install "His Beads".  Many horror stories.  Especially if you have or will add a TPMS.  Most of the cheap beads is nothing more than some powder...

The Dyna Beads were the GOLD Standard here.  BUT, you needed to use the PROPER size (to keep from plugging the TPMS and your valve stems.  Many folks have used them....many swear by them....and obviously a few AT.

MOST folks have gone to the "ADD ON" balancing wheel or disk that you run.  

I have added @Frank McElroy.  I know he just put on new tires and am PRETTY sure he added these.  He is my GOAT resource.  He can pop in here with the name and the details.  That appears to be the trend now....but they are not cheap....but you only buy them ONCE.  Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES....have weights added.

Having said all that.  The Bridgestone/Firestone Engineering Manager (Commercial Tires) who was a MH owner said for me to FORGET balancing the rears or the tag.  Let them run as is.  Or at Best....Weight Balance.  He said they had run all sorts of tests.  

BUT, the Front Steers should be Spun Balanced.  He did NOT like the BEADS.  

SO....contrary opinions. 

I have speed balanced front Toyo's.  PERFECT and I have about 10 K on them.  I added new rears and had two (outsides) bubble balanced.  The interiors, due to my LONG stems could not be balanced.  I think they are fine....so I'm of the bead if you want....but let them alone as well....

 

[cbr046]

There's beads in my current tires from the previous owner.  The coach rides like it's on glass, but they were clogging the valve stems OPEN when I removed the TPMS sensors.  I fixed that with filtered valve cores - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078QFC14W/

I bought a BUCKET of beads!  (talk about all in) - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01EJDSZH8  This is the best cost effective way to do it.  The "per bag" costs run pretty high for a complete set.

I put them in my cargo trailer's new tires but I would never feel that imbalance anyway.  Too bad I don't have recording accelerometers . . . .

I'll use a trucking bead manufacturer / distributor when my coach time comes - https://counteractbalancing.com/trucks/ and follow the links - click on calculator then printable chart. 

I'll use the DW's gram food scale (shhh!) to measure out the amounts.  I may pour them in through a hose or make up some bags (that I hope will break open) when I re-tire. 

I'm still a bit skeptical but worst case if the beads don't take me where I want to go I can always spin balance, hoping the weights don't fall off, and keep the beads in the wheels as a fine tuning tool. 

I'm curious why the same weights in Slime wouldn't do the same thing?

That's my 2c

- bob

Edited April 11, 2023 by cbr046

[Gary 05 AMB DST]

Switched to 4 Centramatics on my last set of tires. They are reusable and you don't have to depend on anybody to balance your tires. I put anti-seize on the Centramatics so it won't rust and bind to the brake drum or wheel.

Gary 05 AMB DST

[waterskier_1]

I've used Dana Beads (see Richard's post above) since 2012 - over 10 years - on two different Monaco's.  As mentioned above, you MUST use the larger beads on our size tires.  The smaller beads were developed for motorcycles and cars, specifically where the owner didn't want to dismount the tire.  They are designed to be inserted through the valve stem (core removed).  But then special valve cores must be used so they don't plug with the beads.  There are NOT recommended to be used on our size tires.  See https://www.innovativebalancing.com/chart.htm#CommercialChart  for the correct weight for each tire.  

Regarding capturing the beads for reuse when replacing the tire, I've had this done 3 times.  Once when I changed all the tires since they aged out, one time when I had a flat, and one time when I "curbed" a tire.  All were done by the same company, but the last two were done by their mobile tech, onsite.  In all cases, the tech knew about the beads, and all carry a compressed air operated vacuum for the purpose.  They ensure the bag is empty before each use.  The vacuum the beads into the bag, when they dump into the new tire before sealing the bead.  I had concerns raised by people who haven't used them, but postulated that the beads could not be recovered, so I bought an extra bag (sized for the largest weight) to carry in case of a tire failure on the road.  I have been carrying that bag for over 11 years never needing it.  

I have read of other manufacturer (or unknown manufacturer) beads that clump, break down or otherwise cause problems, but never those from the Gold Standard Dana Beads.  Make sure you know what the tire dealer is selling, and that he uses the correct weight for the tire size and position (singe or dual).

  -Rick N.

currently in Tucson, AZ

[jfbolkovatz]

I  have been using the beads from the firm in Las Vegas since 2012 in 3 different suppliers tires, current are Toyo's 144. I have used the same set of beads in in all tires. When changing tires I request that I'm allowed to vacuum the beads inspect and micro gage the beads. I have not experienced any unacceptable wear to the beads or the inside of the tires.

JoeB 03 Exec.

[ktloah]

I use the beads and never had a problem, 35k on these Toyo M144's and ride down the road just fine

[Les Hurdle]

Have an old Fleetwood storm..........dealer put beads in new Tyers ........... great.

Another tier guy put beads in my FJ Cruiser......... absolute no no.

[Twomed]

On 4/11/2023 at 11:29 AM, waterskier_1 said:

I've used Dana Beads (see Richard's post above) since 2012 - over 10 years - on two different Monaco's.  As mentioned above, you MUST use the larger beads on our size tires.  The smaller beads were developed for motorcycles and cars, specifically where the owner didn't want to dismount the tire.  They are designed to be inserted through the valve stem (core removed).  But then special valve cores must be used so they don't plug with the beads.  There are NOT recommended to be used on our size tires.  See https://www.innovativebalancing.com/chart.htm#CommercialChart  for the correct weight for each tire.  

Regarding capturing the beads for reuse when replacing the tire, I've had this done 3 times.  Once when I changed all the tires since they aged out, one time when I had a flat, and one time when I "curbed" a tire.  All were done by the same company, but the last two were done by their mobile tech, onsite.  In all cases, the tech knew about the beads, and all carry a compressed air operated vacuum for the purpose.  They ensure the bag is empty before each use.  The vacuum the beads into the bag, when they dump into the new tire before sealing the bead.  I had concerns raised by people who haven't used them, but postulated that the beads could not be recovered, so I bought an extra bag (sized for the largest weight) to carry in case of a tire failure on the road.  I have been carrying that bag for over 11 years never needing it.  

I have read of other manufacturer (or unknown manufacturer) beads that clump, break down or otherwise cause problems, but never those from the Gold Standard Dana Beads.  Make sure you know what the tire dealer is selling, and that he uses the correct weight for the tire size and position (singe or dual).

  -Rick N.

currently in Tucson, AZ

X2 but make it 20 years...they used to have only small beads PITA.  Big beads are trouble free.  Also had them in motorcycle tires...They just plain work.

[Gweedo]

Thank you for all of the responses, sounds like the right beads are the way to go.  
Thank you for the chart Twomed,  I’m going to reference this with the tire shop. 

Did you also put beads in the duals?

My shop can’t get the Tokyo M144 which so I’m gonna have to go with the M154 unless I can find them and bring to them.
 They only balance with beads, just need to make certain they have the correct ones,

 

[quick_tox]

Make sure your installer knows what he’s doing.  My first replacement set of GY 650’s I used Dyna Beads and ran 9 years / 50k miles with perfect wear pattern.  I inspected the demounted tires, inside still looked like new.  The next, a shoddy install in Kingman Az, installer buffed the steel rim beads with a wire wheel down to raw steel and mounted with soapy water.  6 years later     50k miles, I was getting a deep “River channel pattern” on 3 of 6 tires.  I pulled the tires and found the excess soapy water solution has rusted the inside of the “bad” wheels, and the rusty muck had caused the beads to clump, and dozens of beads were embedded in the tire bead. 

[waterskier_1]

6 hours ago, quick_tox said:

Make sure your installer knows what he’s doing.  My first replacement set of GY 650’s I used Dyna Beads and ran 9 years / 50k miles with perfect wear pattern.  I inspected the demounted tires, inside still looked like new.  The next, a shoddy install in Kingman Az, installer buffed the steel rim beads with a wire wheel down to raw steel and mounted with soapy water.  6 years later     50k miles, I was getting a deep “River channel pattern” on 3 of 6 tires.  I pulled the tires and found the excess soapy water solution has rusted the inside of the “bad” wheels, and the rusty muck had caused the beads to clump, and dozens of beads were embedded in the tire bead. 

Good Point.  I would also add that make sure you know what you are purchasing - do your due diligence.  The Dana Beads are ceramic, not steel or any other metal.  You are correct that care need to be exercised not to over soap the bead when mounting to control moisture inside the tires.

  -Rick N.

Currently in Tucson

[Gweedo]

Okay great advice thank you, so I’m assuming you beaded all wheels not just the front. Saw some posts where they didn’t do the rears , I think I’d rather do them as well.  
 

thnx again 

 

[Gweedo]

has anyone tried the tempered glass beads?  I see dynabeads are ceramic.  two tires shops I called use the tempered glass.  not much of a price diff except dyna needs to be ordered plus $20 in shipping.    

 

[Gweedo]

No need to reply, no  worries, it's not the $20 it the time frame.  I'm just going to order the dynabeads based on the advise here, I trust the advise here more than a tire shop.  The toyo M144 are extremely hard to get going with the M171 instead.  

[Gary 05 AMB DST]

Why wouldn't anyone want to switch to Centramatic? Does anyone have anything to say about the Centramatics?

Gary 05 AMB DST

Quote

 

 

[waterskier_1]

2 hours ago, Gary 05 AMB DST said:

Why wouldn't anyone want to switch to Centramatic? Does anyone have anything to say about the Centramatics?

Gary 05 AMB DST

 

Cost.

  -Rick N.

Currently in Deming, NM

[Rikadoo]

Wait a minute im callin BS on the “cost” cause were not drivin a Prius here an this reasoning beads vs Centro-Matic’s…

i will state that what i understand about MY centrematics is they balance the rotating mass, that they lend a certain amt to the tires however some tires have heavy spots that require a basic balance to overcome the majority. So if you use the beads AND centermatics your doin everything to achieve true balance